TOTW: Calling the Cops

For cops, please dial extension 1312

Recently I was having a conversation with a non-anarchist friend who is white and female-identifying* she told me about a situation she found herself in where she considered calling the cops. She was alone alone and was threatened by a person of color who came at her in an explicitly threatening way. I responded with some boiler plate questions and anarchist hostility to the idea of calling the cops at all. Though she isn’t an anarchist, she hates the cops as much as I, or most anarchists I know do, maybe more. She understands the role cops play in society, and especially in relation to race, but found herself in a moment where, had things escalated, that might’ve been her recourse. As you might assume, the conversation didn’t go well.

Happily, she didn’t, and is fine, but she asked me “what do I do? If calling the cops is off the table, if this happens again and things go the other way?”

This conversation made me think about a different situation in which someone I know was threatened with a fire arm by a former intimate partner, and did get the cops, and the courts, and all of the bullshit state apparatus involved to keep her safe. I have no doubt that if she hadn’t made the choices she made, she would be dead. I don’t like that there were cops and all that, but I do like that she is still alive.

For myself, I know the answer, I don’t call the cops. To be frank, when posed with this question by most people, I am tempted to quote Crass (“What if I told you to fuck off?”), or I suggest they read Peter Gelderloos’ book Anarchy Works, but this recent conversation with someone I know has made me revisit the most common “gotcha” question anarchists are asked, but in a different context. Thinking about these issues, especially in the context of someone who shares most of my opinions of the cops and the state, coupled with the past experiences of other people I know where that truly did seem like the best option, got me thinking about how we engage with state apparatus in a world that is largely not the one we want to live in, as opposed to thinking about it in some sort of theoretical anarchist future, and, for someone else who finds themselves in a situation that I am not a part of, I found myself unsure of how to respond, given that there are numerous ways I do engage with the state, given, the cops are one of the most openly repressive faces of the state, but there are a thousand ways we interact all the time with cops who maybe don’t have badges and guns, but wield state power in more nuanced ways.

We do not live in the world we want; we live in this one. My friend would happily live in that other mythic world, but she doesn’t, I don’t, none of us does, and outside of tiny islands we create in the here and now it is unlikely to be that world anytime soon, if ever. I know that Anews is probably the worst place to ask a question like this (shout out to the troll army!), but I am curious, what are your answers? Because in the moment, given the specific situation my friend found herself in, I didn’t really have one. The hot takes include self-defense classes and arming ourselves. This feels like a partial answer, at most. Some might suggest retreating into insular circles that don’t, or more realistically, minimally engage with people who don’t share our world-view. I know some who would suggest a pragmatic (tactical?) approach of accepting that we live in a world where sometimes friends and comrades can’t do what cops can. None of these feels satisfying to me.

It’s easy to say “don’t call the cops” until we find ourselves in a place where the most feasible option is dialing 999 or 911 as opposed to texting people who might, or might not, respond, at all or in a timely manner. Do we advocate that everyone starts packing heat (I already know this is the most popular answer from the anons)? Do we retreat to our tiny islands and pretend the outside world doesn’t exist? Do we acknowledge that given the terrible world that we move in, sometimes some people do need to call the cops?

*Part of why this TOTW is a bit late is I wanted feedback from the main person I reference. We talked about the shitstorm that posting to anews about calling the cops would be, and about using identifiers that give context to the particular situation being labeled as identity politics, as opposed to understanding how the world works. While I am critical of identity politics, she said something that is worth noting, and is hopefully obvious to sincere readers, but felt like it was worth footnoting, given what I foresee the comment thread looking like. To quote, “walking in the world, as a woman, is political.” Her experience walking through the world is not the same as mine, and as an anarchist I understand both the ideas of “never call the cops” and “stay alive", and I honestly don't believe this is about identity politics so much as it is about engaging with the world we live in.

There are 163 Comments

My own personal code does not allow for the calling of cops because I am better than the police. Yet I do not judge those who choose to take that method to achieve personal justice, especially if they have been paying taxes to the State, or lack the muscle, weapons or will to resolve an injustice, let someone else do the dirty work.
Also, killing the cop in ones own head will place a person in a zone of grace which does not attract negative acts against it, but should the random loose canon somehow cross paths with the graceful anarch, then OMG HAVE MERCY UPON THEM, FOR THEY SHALL HAVE THE FULL RETRIBUTION AND RESTITUTION SQUEEZED FROM THEIR SORRY BEINGS !!!

i would happily call a cop on le way, just so they can prove they are "better than the police". what a fucking pompous, moralistic ass.

I have nothing to hide, my field of grace encircles my serene domain, I am more beautiful and fair as a person than the police. They will retreat from my premises with adrenaline deficiency syndrome. Their guns will turn to plasticine in my presence. I am better than the police.

I'm above trolling or abusing, but I float like a butterfly about the messed up strife which amuses me, BUT THEY BETTER NOT ENTER THE GRACEFUL ZONE OF MY INSTINCTUAL REACTION OR THEY WILL SUFFER!!!

I am more beautiful than you. My grace is more elegant than yours, and my penis is bigger than yours.

Behold my magic wand !!

This is not a joke, I live this anarch way, I'm talking about consciousness, not your crass materialistic interpretation .
Why do I bother explaining sigh?.,.

i'd like to hear more of what you mean, because i don't think i quite get it yet. (signed, a different anon)

If one lives as the individual uber(wo)mansch, has disciplined ones mind and body to the rigors of life, has developed a nous for the critical analysis of existence and ones inner instinctual and cognitive processes in relationships and emotional engagements with life experiences, then one can walk tall and free of anxieties and fears which cripple the majority of those in capitalist societies.

PPS I have a guilotine type device above the entrance to my Grace Zone which is triggered by twisted physiognomies ;)

my pleasure for replying...

your words still ring abstractly in my ear, rather than something i can picture. can you give me an example?

Have you heard of Salvador Dali? Develop an aesthetic value system. There is an aura that the spontaneous person projects, and their facial expression tells a thousand words. The instantaneous interpersonal assessment guides ones daily social intercourse, but bearing in mind that outside of the capitalist hegemony, the individual has deeper relationships allowed to bloom and develop because transactional duties become almost non-existence. Life is richer and non-toxic, and attracts positive engagements and experiences.

yeah, i get you regarding sensing other people (and places, and "things"), and using that as a guide to interaction with them...

and also i agree about the richness and depth in relationships that comes from living (mostly) without regard for economics/law/ideology. my own daily life consists of very little "transactional duties" these days.

but i'd still like to hear more about this guillotine and grace zone (assuming they're not completely metaphorical) :)

Gasp! I am better than impersonating the police!

no excuses, no cops

snitches get stitches also

Hahahaa, you see these tuff guys in the can pushin out their chests sayin fuck snitches, die snitches snitchin bastards and like when they get in debt to a big guy and they threaten him and like they are going to beat rape tuff guy starts running to the guards wanting isolation, like he doesn't snitch, but he ran to the man and hid behind him, same thing as snitching, frightened, so they go to the man. Like praying that's like snitching to their God, prayin is snitching, life is a snitch hahahaa.

I AM A SNITCH IN JAIL AND IF I EVER MEET YOU IN PRISON IM GOING TO TEAR YOUR ASS COS I KNOW YOU WONT GO RUNNING AND SNITCHING TO THE SCREWS. THANKYOU AND PLEEEEASE HURRY UP AND VISIT ME.

@02:11

*totw author*

I agree with you as it pertains to my life and how I am able to live. Yes, absolutely, 1312/ACAB. Snitches have led to friends (not people from the internet, but people I care about and share(d) space and projects with suffering terrible repression, This doesn't change the situation in which my friend found herself. Despite her own ethic of no cop calling, she found herself considering the option.

snitches get stitches?!! pray tell way we should provide them with first aid and health care services! >: (

never say never, except for when you say never.
take everything case by case, except where you draw the line and hold youself to standards or something.
you know how it is. do you ask us to get comfort or concessions? there are no definitive answers beforehand. you take split second decisions and live with (or die by) the consequences. good luck!

Likewise, I would call the cops if I really really had to... that's the way it is. If I lived in an anarchist world, I would be able to call on some form of help in 'getting justice.' If I wanted to join some anarchist clique or other and I was told I could never call the cops...fuck the clique is my response. Indeed, I am a loner because of the group laying down their law: I weave in and out: that's my existence.

I'm a meat eating cop and if BBQs became extinct I would break bread with you and eat vegetables at your table ;)

i'm a cop eating BBQ and if controlled fire became extinct i would break you with table at your vegetables '";./

I tell my young child that if they ever get lost that they should find a woman, particularly a woman with kids but, if someone like that isn't around them only then they should try to find a cop.

"if someone like that isn't around them only then they should try to find a cop."

They should try to find YOU, then. Then send them to the CPS for them to be detained and abused. Sounds ALL good to me! :-/

Yeah, that’s not what happens, the state doesn’t just take your kids away if they get separated from you in a public place. You’re obviously just making things up to justify your worldview, please look things up before you post them. I miss the old comment section, discussion here has really taken a nosedive in the last 11 years.

And of course I told my kid to stay put, yell my full legal name & if that doesn’t work to find a mom with kids before finding a uniformed cop.

Nosediving for 11 years?! How long does it take to finally hit the ground?

I called the cops on car-crazed idiots who like to drive FAST and LOOOOUUUD on my street, which in this context is way fucking stupid and dangerous practice since it's a residential area downtown residential area and you can't see the traffic coming due to a curved hill. While I didn't see anything wrong with that, it was delusional to expect the cops to solve the problem, unless they'd be parked very often around here, which still didn't happen.

I though some street neighbors party could be set up to temporarily block the streets, yet that course of action is just symbolic and will hardly convince the idiots to stop being idiots with their cars.

This shows how in social contexts of heavy regulation (the lines of transport), it can be very hard to challenge authority without being part of the problem yourself (a falsely "anarchistic" car driver, who just drives fast coz it's so edgy). Of course, roads and highways can be blocked pretty easily for a while... just dropping garbage -especially metal parts- on them, but that will be more short-lived actions that can get you prosecuted for serious criminal charges in snitchy environments like residential areas.

The best thing I saw were people in California suburbs putting DIY speed bumps overnight at strategic hotspots... like literally made of asphalt or concrete. Which is a rather easy and discrete action to do, yet some municipalities may likely take the side of motorists and remove these bumps. Consider that's the total opposite to filling potholes... just sayin!

… at least at the end of your post, you mentioned something someone else did that didn't suck.

Just saying, making your own speed bumps is technically anarchist.

true. so is leveling them, or ignoring them. unless someone is making you do these things. but....roads, bumpy or not, are...
civ.

Exactly why the pothole-fillers are fucking reactionary Leftards, doing slave labor for keeping society up and running smoothly, to the service of pro-car sociopaths.

Think of the Workers, comrades!

ROAD REPAIR IS THE FORCES OF REACTION <--- don't think this logic holds up but I loled so you win

don't call firefighters, millstein fire brigade or otherwise, say no to controlled fire

i hate speed bumps. more like "car tenderizers". when i see people doing reckless things, the last thing that comes to my mind is "there should be rules against this and someone to enforce them!". but maybe that's what's "wrong the the world and youth these days", my private little opinions. but don't let that stop you, keep doing you

I dream of a world where speeding revheads have their cars burnt and placed at the ends of streets to stop traffic and cop cars. Then the street is turned into a giant skateboarding area (curved hill) with vegetable garden islands and a TAZ.

"I dream of a world where speeding revheads have their cars burnt and placed at the ends of streets to stop traffic and cop cars."

That was the ZAD, on the D281. But without skateboards (I think). Bicycles are way more useful as alternatives to cars, even if not for carrying gangs of maoists or appelistas to their Communes, as they always pack up in small filthy, smoky cars.

But make no mistake... this dream can theoretically happen somewhere in NA too, and it kinda did during the Tyendenega native uprising in the Great Lakes Area. Just don't expect to see that at a bookfair.

"I called the cops on car-crazed idiots who like to drive FAST and LOOOOUUUD on my street, "

see there's easy diy ways to deal with that sans cops. ever heard of spiking a road? or hiding a massive pothole just enough...?

First of all, to the sanctimonious, never-ever-call-cops-ever crowd, we get out what we put in: so if you've never bothered to acquire the conflict skills that the cops have, if you haven't built up a network of other people with similar skills, then you don't have a plan, just a bunch of functionally meaningless opinions, which means you probably shouldn't be giving out advice and you'll look very foolish when someone asks you what the hell they were supposed to do in a real conflict situation, as in the TOTW example. Don't be this person, ultra mega cringe! feelsbadman.jpg

In general, obviously FTP because ACAB blah blah, etc etc.

If you *are* one of the millions and millions of completely unprepared people, your only option is a truly terrible one for all the usual reasons and you should immediately start changing your situation. Yes, you just got SHOULDed. Make some dangerous friends or get more dangerous, or both, ya fukin dumbass. No excuses. Anarchists should know how to defend themselves or they should be ruthlessly mocked. More shoulds. Don't care. Spoon up that truth, it tastes terrible.

Lastly, there's obviously a bunch of grey areas and nuance because real life.

Ableism: if you genuinely have reasons (besides laziness and instagram addiction) for why self-defence is impractical, then I repeat, you need dangerous friends. New set of social priorities for ya.

"I can't instantly learn martial arts!": No, you can't. Never enough hours in the day.

"I found a dead body!": You should probably mention that to the cops … or tell a liberal to do it for you. No judgement.

Any more nuance spring to mind?

mmm mmmmm, sipping on that nuance with my pinky up. tell em, oldie

Depends on the scenario of dead body finding, but i'd tend to not tell cops. Why? Someone else will tell them or they will find it eventually. Its not my business.

Here's the nuance: if they look fancy, take their wallet and definitely don't tell anyone. Also try not to make yourself a suspect

That was pretty defensive for a response to a hypothetical poster that, it turns out, doesn't exist.

A one night stand Im having sex with in my own residential place dies in the act and they have this really scary terrified look on their face which is totally dissociated from the sexual act, and you know how in Hollywood the hero wipes his hand over the messed up face of a dead person and it looks angelic afterwards, well that's not working, the horror expression remains on the cadaver? There are guns and drugs in my residence :)
Is it call the cops and explain the sex, horror expression, and my unemotional disposition, or dump the body in a vacant lot?
PS Im not a sexist, psychopath or deviant but that's what the cops are going to read into my body language and conduct :(

I'm not a cop, I'm a therapist, and you're a sexist, psychopathic sexual deviant who should never be approached without protective gear.

lesson learn: never hav residential, night stand, gun, or drug

If I can't have these things in my own home, well then no wonder folk join drug cartels in police states or dictatorships just to have basic freedoms!

If you are walking alone in public and someone threatens you what can calling cops even accomplish? They probably won't show up until after something happens (or doesn't ). (I am making some assumptions about the scenario laid out in the totw).
So, that's what I tell people who think calling cops is effective, really they can only get involved after the fact.

About self defense: it isn't mostly about how well you can fight. First thing about self defense is the deep, body-knowledge that you are worth defending. Practice walking in the world knowing deeply you are worth fighting for and defending. If you can maintain this attitude (while also NOT projecting that you want to fight) you find people leave you be. This isn't foolproof as there are many fools out there, and it isn't magic, it is practice.
Of course it helps immensely to also know how to throw a punch and how to block a punch, but all the fighting knowledge you can gain by taking classes is almost useless unless you feel yourself worthy of defending.

But all this self defense and guarding against strangers becomes less helpful when the situation is intimate partner violence. I don't have anything good to say on this other than to point to zines & pamphlets that have been already published.

All true. Tend to assume that part of learning self-defence includes a boost in your confidence levels because I've seen it happen over and over.

As for intimate partner violence, very serious topic so at the risk of sounding glib: if you consider yourself worth defending and you're comfortable doing it AND you know where this person sleeps at night, why oh why would they fuck with you in the first place? Seems like a bad idea to me.

Intimate partner violence is on the whole quite a different animal than being confronted by a stranger on the street. One cares about intimates, for one thing, in a way one does not care about a stranger. Sometimes the person hitting you is kind and gentle, maybe they are funny and smart. Maybe they are the breadwinner, or maybe they are mentally ill (another fraught topic).
There are many reasons for staying in such a situation and as outsiders we may not see the logic, there may be no logic, but that is part of why these are gray areas.

You're right of course Nettle and I've been talking too much already. Personally I'm attracted to the sort of people who would kill me in my sleep if I was to do something horrible enough to deserve it. Is that weird? …Anyway, just saying, use your bargaining position to the fullest. If somebody is falling asleep next to you, they should be treating you with due respect lol

Fair enough. And actually I also tend to find dangerous people make the best friends.

Wait a minute...cops are dangerous...does that mean?!!!!

Some dangerous people hire themselves out as such. The priorities of their employers become the issue when they do.

someone genetically predisposed to spontaneous human combustion?
someone who'll go to heaven come rapture?

Intimate partner violence and street harassment/violence are very different beasts. Due to me largely framing this in the context of other people, and with input from only one of them on how I framed it, I left some details vague. Suffice to say, the street incident is not an isolated one, and the individual is known to be aggressive (as far as I know that is about all that is known about him), particularly against women. This is not a dynamic I have any real depth in knowing about, and given the source (and people will have to trust me about the sources integrity, it made me think hard about a question I thought was answered, and I came up with...

@ ingrate yes, I agree & thanks for the bit of clarification.

Someone else here said call the cops if you feel in that much danger, fuck the anarchist morality, and to a degree I agree. This world is full of contradictions. But as the photo on this totw shows, one person's fear is another's racism, and getting official authorities involved often leads to dead black people.

What to do here and now? Self defense has been mentioned, but that has limits and also can sound like blaming the victim if someone doesn't have the skills.

How to deal with transgression without resorting to the state is the thing, right? Answers to that are not just for the future anarchist utopia but also for today. There are some things individuals can try, like packing heat, or self defense. What about on the community level? What skills do we have to work out serious, potentially life threatening, conflicts between individuals or between groups? Seems we don't have those skills because we don't have that community yet. Absent the ability to come to terms with the fact of conflict and some acceptable guidelines for engaging in conflict we remain under the rule of authorities not of our choosing.

Oh Nettle, haven’t you heard that anarchists have call-outs and beatings? Just like the state...

@Nettle - Right! I was hoping with this totw to poke at exactly that, which I think goes beyond cop-calling to larger questions of how we engage with not just the state, but a world and inhabitants that are deeply damaged by civilization, and especially the racist (and sexist) capitalist set up in the United States (which is really the only context I can speak knowingly about). We (by we I mean I) talk a fine line about not engaging with the state, we can no-platform "problematic" individuals from our little bubbles if we want (I mostly think that is not desirable, as it is playing out now), but the rest of the world exists, and most of us have relations with people who don't share all of our beliefs and ethics (to the extent that we share beliefs and ethics?). Those folks don't always have the skills or ability to (re)act as you or I might.

The other thing is that we fail, more often than we succeed, in supporting and protecting each other. That was part of the conundrum for me. My friend knows the common anarchist solutions to situations like this, she largely agrees with them (in theory), and yet what she (and I) have seen time and time again is a failure of those proposals. I don't want my friend to call the cops, but when shit went down, I wasn't going to be able to respond, none of our other friends were able/likely to. THis made my head hurt quite a bit.

i don't have a cell phone, so the option of calling cops doesn't exist for me unless getting attacked by someone in my home. and if that happened (as someone mentioned in a comment below), the cops likely would not arrive in time to do anything about it if i did call.

up to this point in my life, i've never called the cops, and doubt i ever will. but i can understand why someone would want to call them, and i wouldn't judge them for it.

i've experienced only a couple situations where i got physically attacked by another person, and even without much skill in self-defense, i managed to escape without getting hurt very badly (in one case, i found a way to get to my car and attempted to mow the guy down with it - which i didn't, but i got away).

i don't propose to know what another person "should" do. i only know that every situation varies, as well as the possibilities of what one can (or feels willing to) do.

(12:58 poster)

i intended my previous comment as a reply to the totw, not to the comment above it.

This TOTW pokes at something that anarchists still have a hard time grappling with, the conflict between our ideas and how we at least strive to live, and the world in which we move. I don't have answers to the questions the author asks, and I suspect any answer is a combination of all of the suggested options; surrounding ourselves with people we trust and guarding against a hostile world however we can, and recognizing that sometimes some individuals find themselves in need of breaking the "rules".

agreed. ok now that that's over with, what do we talk about now?

i agree.

i realize that how i want to live and relate differs greatly from the majority of people i interact with, and also my ability and sense of strength at any given moment varies. so i attempt to defy, elude, attack, disregard authority whenever and however i can, and try not to beat myself up when i don't.

That’s a better way of putting it. Rules outside of useful means of gameplay suck.

once i called an uber...and the driver was also a COP : O

once i went to friend's friend house...and his mom was COP : O

It depends where you live, but in many places the law does not give you a choice, even if you CAN defend yourself. Because you're right, you do live in this world, and not the one we want. Owning and carrying firearms is good. You can have a good chance to save your own life if you carry a firearm. I carry. In fact there is a small pistol in my pocket as I type this. A pistol I have never had to draw on anyone. Thankfully.

My elderly mother is not as lucky as I am. She lives alone in a cozy home in the forest. One night she was awoken to her front door being opened. It could have been me, my brother, or one of her friends who really needed to get into her home that night because of some emergency or something. But she was not sure, so she got up to check.

What happens next could have gone one of maybe 5 ways, but in reality it went only one way. I will describe the 5 ways it could have happened, and afterwards tell you what actually happened that summer night in 2008.

In one universe this took place in the United Kingdom. My mother walks out of her room, phone in her left hand and asks the dark house, "Hello?" A tall unknown man is standing in the kitchen. "Come here, bitch." He says as he advances toward her. She dials EMS on her phone. An operator on the other end of the line picks up immediately says "Emergency Services, what is the location of your emergency?" My mother, barely aware that the operator has picked up yet, screams at the grunting, shirtless man advancing toward her "Wait! Who are you!? Get back!" The operator starts to trace the call. The man attacks my mom. She is beaten, raped and murdered. The cops show up 15 minutes later and bring her body to a morgue. The man is arrested a week later. My mom was not his first victim. On the expense of taxpayer dollars, he is sentenced to have a free cell to live in and free food for the rest of his life.

In a second universe this took place in the California. My mother walks out of her room, phone in her left hand, full size pistol in her right hand and asks the dark house, "Hello?" A tall unknown man is standing in the kitchen. "Come here, bitch." He says as he advances toward her. She dials EMS on her phone. An operator on the other end of the line picks up immediately says "Emergency Services, what is the location of your emergency?" My mother, barely aware that the operator has picked up yet, screams at the grunting, shirtless man advancing toward her "Wait! Who are you!? Get back!" The operator starts to trace the call. The man is just feet away from being able to touch my mother. My mother drops her phone, raises and levels the pistol at the mans center mass. She fires, the man falters, she keeps firing until the man drops to the floor of her kitchen. She fires the two remaining rounds in the pistols magazine at the man. The mag is empty. She turns and runs toward a window. She climbs out of the window and falls, breaking her wrist. She runs through the dark forest as fast as her elderly bones can take her (which is not fast at all) until she sees the porch light of a neighbors house and knocks on the door. A man answers, rifle in hand, wondering why the nice old lady from next door is having an anxiety attack on his front porch at 2AM. He calms her down and the mans husband wraps my mother in a blanket and gives her water. Once calm, she explains what happened and the man calls EMS. The ambulance shows up can they do their best to keep her calm which ends when the cops show up and arrest my mom. The court rules that my mother is guilty of manslaughter. The fact that she was able to leave through a window proves to the judge that she violated "duty to retreat laws". The defense states that there was no way the old woman could have had any chance of retreating from the man faster than he could catch her. The court things she should have at least tried to run. My mother claims she barely had time to even think about it because it happened so fast. The law is the law. My mother goes to prison on taxpayer expense.

In a third universe this took place in the Maine. My mother walks out of her room, phone in her left hand, full size pistol in her right hand and asks the dark house, "Hello?" A tall unknown man is standing in the kitchen. "Come here, bitch." He says as he advances toward her. She dials EMS on her phone. An operator on the other end of the line picks up immediately says "Emergency Services, what is the location of your emergency?" My mother, barely aware that the operator has picked up yet, screams at the grunting, shirtless man advancing toward her "Wait! Who are you!? Get back!" The operator starts to trace the call. The man is just feet away from being able to touch my mother. My mother drops her phone, raises and levels the pistol at the mans center mass. She fires, the man falters, she keeps firing until the man drops to the floor of her kitchen. She fires the two remaining rounds in the pistols magazine at the man. The mag is empty. She turns and runs toward a window. She climbs out of the window and falls, breaking her wrist. She runs through the dark forest as fast as her elderly bones can take her (which is not fast at all) until she sees the porch light of a neighbors house and knocks on the door. A man answers, rifle in hand, wondering why the nice old lady from next door is having an anxiety attack on his front porch at 2AM. He calms her down and the mans husband wraps my mother in a blanket and gives her water. Once calm, she explains what happened and the man calls EMS. The ambulance shows up can they do their best to keep her calm, which ends when the cops show up and ask her what happened. To the cops this clearly seems like self defense, but they still take her to the hospital for her wrist and then to the station to give an official account to what happened. They take the body away and her pistol "for evidence" and leave a message for the DA when he wakes up in the morning. He eventually gets around to it and agrees that this is clearly self defense and no charges are brought against my mom. The cops find that the body was of a man who had already hurt other women in awful ways, and they thank her for stopping him. She never gets her pistol back from the police and eventually gives up trying to get it back after they claimed they "lost it" so she goes out and buys another. She's shaken, but alive and free.

In a fourth universe this also took place in the Maine. My mother walks out of her room, phone in her left hand, full size pistol in her right hand and asks the dark house, "Hello?" A tall unknown man is standing in the kitchen. "Come here, bitch." He says as he advances toward her. My mother screams at the grunting, shirtless man advancing toward her "Wait! Who are you!? Get back!" The man is another step away from touching her. My mother raises and levels the pistol at the mans center mass. She fires, the man falters, she keeps firing until the man drops to the floor of her kitchen. She fires the two remaining rounds in the pistols magazine at the man. The mag is empty. She turns and runs toward a window. She climbs out of the window and falls, breaking her wrist. She runs through the dark forest as fast as her elderly bones can take her (which is not fast at all) until she sees the porch light of a neighbors house and knocks on the door. A man answers, rifle in hand, wondering why the nice old lady from next door is having an anxiety attack on his front porch at 2AM. He calms her down and the mans husband wraps my mother in a blanket and gives her water. Once calm, she explains what happened and the men let her sleep at their home for the night. In the morning the couple help my mom remove the body of the dead man and dump it in a river. A person spots the body a day later and calls the cops. Due to cell phone location records they eventually place the man at my moms house and investigate her. Eventually they figure out what happened. The cops arrest my mom and the two men for not reporting any of what happened and hiding a dead body. My mom and the men a thrown in prison.

In a fifth universe this took place in a universe without states at all. My mother walks out of her room, full size pistol in her right hand and asks the dark house, "Hello?" A tall unknown man is standing in the kitchen. "Come here, bitch." He says as he advances toward her. My mother screams at the grunting, shirtless man advancing toward her "Wait! Who are you!? Get back!" The man is another step away from touching her. My mother raises and levels the pistol at the mans center mass. She fires, the man falters, she keeps firing until the man drops to the floor of her kitchen. She fires the two remaining rounds in the pistols magazine at the man. The mag is empty. She turns and runs toward a window. She climbs out of the window and falls, breaking her wrist. She runs through the dark forest as fast as her elderly bones can take her (which is not fast at all) until she sees the porch light of a neighbors house and knocks on the door. A man answers, rifle in hand, wondering why the nice old lady from next door is having an anxiety attack on his front porch at 2AM. He calms her down and the mans husband wraps my mother in a blanket and gives her water. Once calm, she explains what happened and the men let her sleep at their home for the night. In the morning the couple help my mom remove the body of the dead man and bury it in the forest. End of story.

Four of these stories were just stories. The third one was real. See, if something bad happens to us and we have no way of defending ourselves, we just get hurt. But if we do defend ourselves, and don't report it, we go to jail. But some places criminalize even defending yourself. Most places criminalize even owning the inanimate physical objects that would allow anyone, even weak old ladies like my mom, from doing so. Only a lucky few are allowed by the states they live in to defend themselves properly. But if they don't report it, like I said, they go to prison with the same type of people who they were defending themselves against. You're right. We DON'T live in the fifth universe. There are a great many situations where even though the event is over and the threat is gone, if we don't call the cops we run the very very high and likely risk of the cops coming after us for NOT calling them. It's bullshit. But we sadly don't live in the fifth universe.

fun to read, glad your mom made it out okay.

of course, many more than those other 4 possible scenarios could have taken place.

An old woman, a home intruder, two husbands, and the police.
A collection of question marks.
Five improbable entities stuck together into a pit of darkness.
No logic, no reason, no explanation.
Just a prolonged nightmare in which fear, loneliness, and the unexplainable walk hand-in-hand through the shadows.
In a moment, we'll start collecting clues to the whats, the whys, and the wheres.
We will not end the nightmare, we'll only explain it.
Because this....is the Twilight Zone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHV8r7LsO6k

Who's to say your mom didn't pick up said intruder from a pick up joint and take him home with the promise of payment for kinky sex, and there was a disagreement, or he finds out your mom was HIV pos, or she threatened to blackmail him he was married etc.
Moms aren't all lovely sweet things, they can be conniving old mean things, I would be very very suspicious of any scenario where there's a living old woman and a dead virale young man, very suspicious!!

Just stop pretending that anyone, on the fucking planet can be in the fifth story. If you live in a remote area for instance, this shit CAN happen even if very unlikely, people might see it as much less of a drag to just bury the bad dude's body in the forest and tell no one.

Also, there's many countries/region where gun laws make guns either useless (due to being forced to put the ammo in a different location than the firearm in your house) or very hard to obtain. A can of pepper spray could do a difference -and it is legal to buy in most places- assuming you can benefit from these few seconds of disruption to run away to safety, or cut that guy's throat. If living in a dangerous area with creeps, you'd keep your head low and watch your back 24/7, then set up booby traps or obstacles of sorts at your house's entrances for slowing down attackers or as early warning, as you never know who's going to show up late in the night.

it is more than possible, it is likely in many remote places, especially in the western u.s. it definitely happened where i used to live, which was more high desert than forest.

My point was that, in remote locations where cops don't have a significant presence, this small presence is explained by the lack of social demands (often confused for "needs") for copping. Less copping also means for more liberty (and purpose) to arm yourselves. But what I was also saying, is how it can be stupid to call the cops for an aggressor's dead body, where just making it disappear in the middle of nowhere is just more convenient.

Completely the opposite for more populated/policed areas, where the cops become a free body bagging service... of course in exchange of some legal hassle.

But, yes, not being armed + relying on cops for personal safety is dumb and self-defeating. It's assuming cops are there to protect civilians, which is some of the most sheepish, servile citizen posture that doesn't belong on this site, save for a few laughter. Only the weak can believe the State goons will save them.

heh! Lots of nuance around finding/making dead bodies. I wouldn't know! … is the sensible position to take in public.

Don't worry, it's all a joke, mostly tongue in cheek parody of mafia hitman idioms gleened from watching too many Scorcese movies.

So you think this is a joke do you?
So happens a friend of my girlfriend heard through a guy who works as a secretary for a satelite electronic surveilance company that a special unit of some type of seriel killer squad have been very very interested in @news for some time, and suspect that it is the internet meeting place for 2 serial killers who've been leaving corpses all over the Bay Oakland area. I know, you're going to immediately say I'm a troll, ironically, it'll probably be the serial killers who are the first to lay that accusation at me, unless they do the reverse psychology thing, that is, they defend what I am saying, therefore making it go away because it ends up looking like lame trolling not worth trolling itself. Or thecollective just delete my warning and replace it with an explanatory comment which denies any kind of surveilance and then some ethical justification blah blah.
Call the cops if you hear about any bodies being concealed or dumped by commenters on this site. We will defend your anonomity and respect your privacy, but it IS NOT SNITCHING to call the cops on psychopathic serial killers, and forget all this Leftist snitchjacketer culture that stinks of binary misplaced honor amongst thieves or revolutionaries.

Sometimes you just have to defend yourself and risk the legal consequences.

Because if you don't, you could end up dead, or seriously injured. By defending yourself, you could end up in prison.

Each person will have to evaluate their own situation as it arises. The principles of anarchy were never meant for the world of cops and courts, and so are not a good guide.

There's a hella lotta innocent folk in prison, not even counting the artificial criminal coded offenders inside. Basically, money and status is the ticket out of prison in many cultures throughout the world.

If you need to call the cops to be safe, call them. Tired of all these left anarchists and their moralist idea thats its not OK.

Cops are a consequential problem not a causative one. Sometimes complications require that you call them. They are the problematic symptomatic rank and file of the greater discourse of law and order. Focus on eroding belief and value in that and not demonizing the rank and file. The same goes for the military.

Yeah except there are no such guarantees and it's not about morality OR the left so … trolling or just completely wrong?

guarantees ^of safety, I meant to say. It's a functional problem, certainly not a moral one. If you think morality is the factor here, you have no meaningful experience with law enforcement and probably shouldn't be giving advice.

'xcept you forgot that it's moralism that makes people call the cops in the first place, triple idiot.

It’s gratifying to read non- and semi-trolls engage in this topic, one that is almost always fraught with crypot-liberal/social democrat handwringing. Then there’s the anarcho-fundamentalists (the ones who spout the slogans as moral imperatives without understanding the theoretical and analytical precedents), who are eager to remind everyone (including themselves) that “snitches get stitches,” without a functional understanding of outlaw subcultures operate in the real world and how informants are cultivated by law enforcement and infiltrators are inserted — or perhaps even more importantly — what the legal consequences are of assaulting cops. The fact is that outlaws call the cops on each other all the time, for both business reasons (the simplest being the temporary or permanent social removal of a competitor) and personal reasons (where the cops are used as surrogates for “street justice,” leaving the outlaw untouched by the law.
In addition, the subcultural assumptions and mechanisms that promote and maintain social conformity never enter into most of these ridiculous non-discussions.
So thanks, TOTW author, for framing it with a real-world example that has resulted in an important and partially rewarding discussion.

Those are snivelling cowards you're thinking of, not outlaws! The words don't even sound alike?!

As Bennett said in the movie Commando "I'm smart". The same is true outlaws who utilize law and order for their own ends.

Ah movie references … where imaginary people say made up bullshit. The funny part is, a lot of cops would agree that you're rationalizing being a lil baby boy who can't handle your own shit.

SE refers to the movie Commando to show just how he's "smart"...

*Capt. Picard facepalm and lols, like really*

around law including calling upon them for your own ends is not cowardice. The commando reference is simply referencing a quote which points this out.

You're an out-of-touch moron if you think the liberals and socio-democrats are against relying on the police, just saying.

others likely have situations in which they called it and didn't regret it, but here's what i've got.

1. before i was a conscious anarchist i got jumped by about 4-5 guys and was kicked on the ground in a college student residential area, screamed for help continuously, nobody came, some guy rode by on his bike and did nothing. they took my wallet and left, and i was pretty banged up but okay. shaken and kinda panicking, i automatically called 911 and warned a couple people walking by that i had just been assaulted. the cops did nothing except patrol and harass the neighborhood. i had nothing worth stealing ($2 cash and a debit card) and they couldn't have recovered it anyway. they charged some random stuff on my debit card and the bank refunded it. not much else i could have done, but the cops only made things worse. a couple newspapers called me for an interview, asked questions fishing for me to say the neighborhood was unsafe. all i did was say that the cops couldn't do anything so don't call them, and i didn't particularly care about the crime, shit happens. they didn't print that, so don't talk to journalists either!

2. walking around my neighborhood in the afternoon, i saw a man passed out on the sidewalk and bleeding from the head. i don't have any medical training, but i made sure he was breathing, then tried to get him to respond to me verbally. he was breathing but was out cold. so i ran to a laundromat a few yards away and told someone there was a guy who needed help, then after a moment of hand-wringing about the cops, i called 911 and described the situation. during the call the man woke up in a daze and started stumbling down the street. immediately, two cops showed up and i quit talking to the dispatcher, said i don't cooperate with police and that was it. by calling for help, the cops automatically showed up, and i may have done nothing except give this guy a worse day. on the other hand, depending on his condition (maybe he still needed help), or if it was a worse emergency, i'd prefer he got some help than hold up some anti-cop ideal. unlike the previous case though, in this case, if i had medical training then i would have been better able to help him myself and make an informed decision about if he needed more formal attention.

in short, not calling cops = replacing the other shit that allows them to keep their grey area (defense + emergency response). chipping away at it with medical training may accomplish more than "community policing" activism.

This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. Very similar experiences to my own.

1. I was in a relatively minor car accident where it looked much worse because the vehicle rolled on it's side in to a ditch. I knew everyone driving by would call it in so I called dispatch myself to be like "I'm fine. Just need a tow truck, etc" so the operator automatically sends police, against my wishes, which is policy for any 911 call and all the piggies did was write me a ticket for crashing and threaten me with additional fines.

2. Found a guy with a serious head injury, stumbling around, incoherent. He looked pretty hard up, likely poor as fuck, then I notice his scalp wound is already bandaged. The cops had already found him after he got jumped, gave him a token bandage and told him the hospital was 5 blocks that way and he should hoof it. He had a bad concussion and could barely walk or talk. They just left him there, probably because fuck the homeless or maybe because he refused treatment or both. I don't even know if it was the cops who cracked his skull in the first place.

3. Watch 2 yuppie dude bros with expensive watches literally sprinting after a taxi, screaming abuse and threats because the cabbie refused to take them, they were too hammered. Cabbie can't get away in traffic so he drives right up to some cops and begs for help. The cops take one look at these rich fuckers and basically give them the blow job of compassion right there in the street, me watching.

"Ok sir, please calm down. Can't have you screaming about racist murder in the streets now, can we?

Wealthy racist jabs his finger in to the cop's chest repeatedly, on a tirade about taxes and entitlement to total obedience. This back and forth goes on for awhile and involves several minor instances that are easily considered assault P.O. if the guy wasn't rich but nothing happens except the aforementioned bj of compassion and understanding.

Afterwards, I can't resist asking these cops why the hell they were so patient and they own it. "Those guys can afford lawyers."

I could go on and haven't even touched all the other political shit. These are random encounters. If you still think calling the cops makes you "safe", you must be white or rich or dumb as rocks or some combo of all 3.

If you're in Immediate physical danger that you can't deal with, calling the cops is ethically fine, it often practically not much good.

If the situation is over and you're just calling so they'll get revenge for you, that's almost certain ly the wrong thing to do.

No hard and fast rules. Try to avoid it, make plans with your friends about how to deal with stuff, but sometimes its the only option

What if my dad is a leftist killing serial killer who buys me cool things and looks after me, wouldn't it be unethical to report him to the cops?
Seeeee, it all makes sense if your looking throw an objective lens, but when love comes into the equation, rather than hate, the whole ethical compass is flipped over. That's why I think autonomous zones of justice have to be considered, like the serial killer in one society would be considered heroic in another society.
I think just listening intuitively to ones heart is the best choice, either commit involvement or walk away, but don't judge.

Huh? Wait, why is getting revenge on someone who has done you harm "certainly the wrong thing to do"?

I don't have a problem with calling the knockers. The people that think calling the cops = snitching are retards that don't seem to understand what snitching actually is. It's funny to laugh at those tards.

of community policing isn't about the good things they do like saving people from getting their ass kicked, pulling people out of burning vehicles or getting cats down out of trees it's that the police have always been jackboots for the ruling class. Whether it was henchman or tax collectors for the nobility or slave patrols or Pinkerton's they exist to enforce the laws of the ruling class and private property. Its sad that someone has to apologize for calling cops to keep from getting their ass kicked when that was their only recourse. Does DIY in a division of labor mean we do our own police work? And snitching implies accountability to another person or group who may be harmed by informing. If the lady next door calls the cops to keep from getting beat by her husband I'm not going to knock on the door the next day and call her a snitch and say "You should have called me instead I'm an anarchist baby!" Or "Do it yourself!" As long as I don't get harmed by it it doesn't matter but there are consequences for calling the police, sometimes they shoot black or mentally ill people on sight out of fear so it's a decision you have to make using best judgment and live or die with the consequences.

GO3 said: "The police have always been jackboots for the ruling class.". How does the post-left here feel about this sentence?

into the annals of anarchist history for that one. Now they're called first responders and public servants. Really they are a professional paramilitary force with immunity from prosecution and an asymmetrical power dynamic with ordinary people. If anything society is more stratified than ever, no king ever had the power that heads of state and the mega rich hold today. Oh but there still are kings in this world.

One thing still stands, even after reading the snarky reactionary trolling:

A.C.A.B.

Fred, now take a few deep breaths, I sense some anger and ressentiment deep within your being. Be forgiving of the weak who cannot handle themselves, they are not to blame. I think you should re-evaluate your attitudes to the loathsome weak ignorant hordes that allow for the domination of authority's musclemen and thugs, and learn to accept them as harmless worms and maggots that they are, and that they are loving and affectionate if you give them alot of money to be so.

but...but...judging by the topic and the comments...i thought this would be the place where they’d be most appreciated

My own practice works like this: If I am threatened by a homophobe or similar attacker, at that moment its just me and them, and it is up to me to defend myself or get seriously fucked up, The attacker picks the time and place, and surely has the skill to ensure the cops can't get there before the incident is essentially over. I learned way back in the 1980's that even reporting it to cops just risked having to defend myself a second time, this time from an attacker in a badge. I simply could NOT safely go to the cops, because I myself was also a disfavored person (a "street queen") in a disfavored place doing disfavored tbings (cruising for partners). Now it's even worse with my known high profile and the nightmare of Trump and all those MAGAts wearing badges. Any fight, win or lose, I not only don't go to the cops, I take cover afterwards in case someone else saw it and calls the cops.

If you defeat an armed assault with a weapon or your own and go to the cops, you risk a weapons charge. Win or lose using only your hands and go to the cops, risk an assault charge. Disarm your attacker and call the cops, risk both robbery and gun charges(the latter for possessing the attacker's gun). Some cops won't act like this, but if some MAGAt in a uniform decides they don't like you it is plenty possible. Think of it like being back in school, where a bully attacks someone, that person fights back, and both parties are punished for "fighting." If you yourself live outside the system, like it or not you will probably have to fight your own battles.

I have no problem with people reporting shit like missing manhole covers in the street or trees down on dark roads waiting to crash some family's car. The cops will place flares, then report it to those who actually fix the problem. Tree BRANCHES I can usually drag out of the road myself. Of course, if you are carrying anything illegal, are a fugitive or are facing warrants, get someone else to report it and get the hell out of dodge yourself.

The final issue is this: a "no cops" rule no matter how important is totally and completely incompatable with a nonviolence code! I saw this at Occupy, when someone attacked McPherson Square with a knife and because there was no physical defense plans everyone essentially had to abandon camp until either the cops came on their own or the attacker ran out of energy, whichever happened first. With both no cops AND no armed security response of our own, anyone could show up with a pocketknife (much less a gun) and declare themselves King of McPherson Square.

What is the point in calling the cops?

aside from an anarchist critique of police and authority, what is the actual point of calling the police... how do they actually help you? they don't protect you before something happens

Maybe if you've been kidnapped by a Buffalo Bill or Jigsaw type serialkiller and you have a concealed cell phone, a call to the cops may help, unless you have heavily armed friends with gun permits. Or just be ethical and not call anyone and get mutilated and sodomized for one week 4 times a day and have an excrutiatingly painful death so you can be a snitchjacketeur to your last breath, ok.

Yes, because cops -assuming you were carrying a concealed cell phone the serial killer didn't find after ripping off your clothes because it was concealed up your rectum- will come on their unicorns to save you.

And you'd better trust they will. Coz you ain't got no other choice! And SCREAAAAM from the bottom of that pit, AhAhahAhAhHAHA!

- Buffalo Bill

You're twistin' my melon man, you know you talk so hip man
You're twistin' my melon man ... Call the cops!

Just one more time, with feeling; the best anti-cop position is a PRACTICAL one, if you ask me.

Sure, there's dozens of great theoretical arguments but you really don't even need them. Theory gets bogged down in ideological debate. Instead, just an objective assessment of what cops actually DO (99% of the time) is all the anti-cop argument you'll ever need.

Are you reporting lost property or an active shooter?
Are you being harassed or stalked repeatedly and unwilling to use violence against the aggressor?
Are you a rich person who wants to retaliate against some poor people who dared to meet your gaze?

If your problem falls outside of these parameters, you don't really understand what cops are for. Failure to select appropriate tool for job yields mixed results?

i didn't suggest anything about "theory".

of course i can look at cause and effect of things i can see and sense, but not "objectively". i wanted to know what you meant by that.

yes yes, nobody is truly objective, etc. I'm not claiming to be the sole possessor of truth here. For the sake of this topic, I'm only claiming to be more objective than many, based on a healthy skepticism of what can reasonably be expected of the goons of the rich.

For example, elsewhere a commenter brings up using the police to intervene in violent conflict with a mentally ill person, only because their co-workers are "less creative" or whatever. But this is one of the classic scenarios where lethal violence subsequently gets used, a not insignificant possibility, resulting from that decision. That's the "objectivity" I'm talking about.

There's a chance they'll show up and kill this guy, which you would be at least partially responsible for if you made the call. Cause and effect.

okay, so you mean using your senses, experiences, observations, and so on to see causes and effects and relationships and then use those perceptions as a basis for what you might do (or not do) next....

when i usually hear the word "objective", people tend to mean something different than that.

I see. But there isn't any real alternative to that method? So you must mean, belligerent bad faith use of the word?

i don't know about "bad faith" usage....i don't use the word at all myself....so i wanted to clarify what you meant.

Since I'm finally using a stupid screen name to avoid having the same stupid fights over and over.
Objectivity as in, probably true or as close to it as possible for purposes of discussion.

not looking for a fight here, i (after a lot of consideration) don't use certain words like "objective", "truth", "fact", just to name a few....i might create a stupid screen name too if i decide to post a bit more here.

so when i have a conversation with someone who uses words that i don', and if i have any interest in continuing the dialogue, i'll always ask what someone means by them.

oh I didn't mean you specifically, just like earlier when I mentioned theory. Thats just my stupid sense of humour about the stupid internet.

as many have already said, cops are not usually helpful in any way that is useful in a crisis type situation, even if they wanted to be. they come after the fact, to maintain order and promote the status quo. so the question of how useful it is to call a cop is a good one.

but to the ideologues and purists that claim there is absolutely no reason any self-identified anarchist should ever call a cop... fuck ideologues and purists. every individual needs to decide for themselves what actions and reactions are appropriate in any given situation; context matters. everyone is forced to make decisions every day about when and how to interact with "the system", and sometimes the available options suck.

personal self defense and having trusted relationships (and communications); that is the best way (imo) to avoid even having to make that decision.

To be frank most of the above feel like a variant on those melodramatic hypotheticals Republicans use to politically corner their opponents, like the ticking time bomb scenario used to justify torture or lethal force and it's difficult for me to give them any weight. Offhand I can't recall which philosopher called most of those cases a form of bad faith because there are usually plenty of steps before such an escalation is required.

Here are some real-life reasons why ordinary people call the cops.
If your mobile phone is stolen, some insurance companies won't replace it without a crime number.
If you or your a partner or a relative who has a mental health condition, sometimes the cops will be called out to get psychiatric services to take the person's situation with adequate gravity. Or if they are hoping to be referred to get some social housing. Especially if the person is already living on the street. Points mean prizes.
This has to be anonymised for obvious reasons. Most of my career has been in frontline street projects where we're working on a shoestring with homeless people with highly chaotic lifestyles, usually with a combination of mental health issues, heavy drug use, maybe with Hep B, C or HIV. Perhaps they are also selling sex to survive or have been sexually abused when younger. Even in our situation in most cases, you can be sensitive to how things can escalate and address them at several points before things get 'hot'. In saying all that there have been one or two occasions where genuinely out of nowhere, things got heavy. At what point. if ever, would you call the cops, if at all, even though your organisations' policies clearly state what you should do? Personally, I have never called the cops and have always found a constructive workaround but in fairness to my colleagues I can be a bit more inventive than most in such situations. There was one instance where I was dealing with someone who made a lunge to attack me. He was homeless, mental health issues, history of violence, powerbuilder with a formidable background in martial arts. If it wasn't for a colleague who had a sudden idea I don't think I would have got out of that one alive.

Here's another real situation but not one I have had to deal with: If you work in a rape crisis centre do you as an anarchist feel comfortable calling the cops if an alleged perp appears outside the premises. Would you look the other way and hope someone else makes the call?

I'd go outside and confront the perp with a baseball bat, cos I'm a real anarch warrior!!

"He was homeless, mental health issues, history of violence, powerbuilder with a formidable background in martial arts. If it wasn't for a colleague who had a sudden idea I don't think I would have got out of that one alive."

...actually one more reason to get rid of cops. Because they help flimsy, cowardly yuppie shitstains like you to "stay safe".

Anyone here doubt most anarchists would sheepishly report their stolen mobile to the cops to claim on their insurance?

no doubt at all... anarchists are the ones who say "we are ungovernable" and only march with liberals and follow parade rules.. for that matter follow any rules

they are the ones that say "no matter who you vote for" and then argue for voting for harm reduction also didn't want to bloc up for Obama because of Optics

also, if you notice, these Antifa are the first ones to appeal to authority, either by asking the police to arrest the fash or by doxing and asking people to fire them

so it would be no surprise if American anarchists would also be the first ones calling police

Nice strawman you're slapping around there. FTP AND THE INSURANCE I PAID FOR TOO

what strawman?

Well you deleted the comment about reporting stolen merch so …

this anarchist doesn't have a mobile phone, or any insurance to cover such things...so try again with another scenario.(YtsGy(

I doubt most anarchists are idiot enough to pay insurance companies for shit that happens so rarely. That's more the pattern with consumer slaves who need the State to give them an impression of safety in their live. Unlike them sheep, I understood a long while back how cell phones got MEIs that when declared "lost or stolen" cannot be reactivated, so basically stealing phones ain't a very lucrative business unless you know some techie who can change the inboard memory chip and void the carrier data.

It was Henry Shue who argued that "ticking timebomb" narratives take too many things for granted to produce conclusions with any real-world application.

...but spewing here that sheepish narrative on how we need cops does.

Anarchists don't all have to be against using cops, but in our case -and like all the rest- there's gotta be a serious questioning to be done about it (that is partly expressed in comments above). Not long ago some creepy ghoulish old women called the cops on me as I was recycling a damn piece of wood out of some dumpster. I tried arguing nicely with her, but she was firmly set on the idea that I was "stealing something" and committing a "criiiiime". Now that IS the classic snitching, supported by that stupid reactionary sheeple moralism we all know not so dearly. So stupid... that the cop who actually came went like "wtf", just checked my ID and left with a confused grin.

A coppish fool is even worst than actual cops, as the latter do it on a shift and for a paycheck, while the first are like that 24/7 and for free.

If that was me with that creepy old lady, I would have confronted her with a baseball bat and my " IMMA CRAZY ANACH WARRIOR FACE" and I would have had her making me tea and scones and massaging my shoulders, COS I HAVE THE AURA!!!

Who says anarchy, says negation of government;
Who says negation of government says affirmation of the people;
Who says affirmation of the people, says individual liberty;
Who says individual liberty, says sovereignty of each;
Who says sovereignty of each, says equality;
Who says equality, says solidarity or fraternity;
Who says fraternity, says SOCIAL ORDER;

Srsry, people... Get that populist drivel out of the @ library.

Who needs cops when anarchists police each other so severely.

It is good to be severe because a critical contemplative analysis between people partaking in relationships of exchange , interaction and expenditure of energy are required to question the degrees of humanity within closed systems of social power, such as clans, or even associations of individuals temporarily mixing and creating alternative living processes.
I have welcomed critiques directed at me, but I must warn thee, there is the chaos aesthetic, whereby imperfection is seen as beatiful and is adverse to the uniformity of totalitarian Utopianism. There is never an actual thing as a "crime", this is a fiction created by authority. Cops are not be legitimate, nor is property, if you're frightened call the cops or go to church and pray, and if you're not and can handle your own affairs, THEN WALK TALL WITH GRACE AMONGST THE SHEEPISH POOR DEFENCELESS SLAVES OF CAPITAL.

The answer is simple and most English speaking countries already embrace it. GUNS! If you call the cops all you are really doing is asking the state to send a man with a gun to handle your problem for you. In many such cases just showing your potential assailant a pistol or rifle will be enough to cause them to change their mind about their nefarious plan. The founders of America didn't want soldiers (now cops) to even be in their cities. They wanted citizens to have guns to protect themselves and their communities.

Lol What the yikes is showing your gun to a potential assailant? That's paranoid deterrent syndrome dood, and showing people your gun is like showing and comparing dicks ;) Why not a charming smile and saying I don't have anything of value, I have a little food I can spare though, do you need a helping hand. Most people defined as dangerous or potentially criminal in the capitalist society are mostly people without accomodation, food, affection, money or possessions. They get angry because people fear them and get paranoid and suspicious around them.
OMG WTFrazzled hell does " founders of America " even mean? More like foundering in Muhrikan patriotism slaughtering the indigenous.
MY SHIELD OF GRACE SHALL DECRIMINALIZE THE ZONE AROUND ME, THUS NEGATING COPS AND CRIME, AND TURNING GUNS INTO PLASTICINE.

People who without accomodation, food, affection, money, or possessions, often steal from and kill other poor people. Poor people trust other poor people as little as they trust middle class people.

And neoliberals who do not accept the laws of natural empathy, that wild desperate people are animals who act emotionally and instinctively to bring about the unwritten justice of the jungle, that the thieving jackal or hyena shall be torn and devoured by the lion of mighty elephant, and so the graceful mighty uber(wo)mansch shall exer ise their personal guillotines upon the distrustful selfish Freds of this world, and smite the weak sheep also and clean the environment of selfish paranoid creeps, but help the homeless unloved and hungry wolves who lurk on the cusp of greatness.

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