TOTW: kleptitarianism

looting

"When I walk through the aisles at the supermarket, looking at all the products for sale around me, perhaps I can tell which ones are manufactured from the exploitation of animals, but I can’t tell which ones — if any — are manufactured without exploiting anyone or anything." -- CrimethInc

According to a zine and recent companion essay anyone who cares about animals, as well as people who care about causing harm to capitalist modes of production, should be a kleptitarian--they should steal all of their food, including meat. The argument is that stealing meat is more harmful to the capitalist system of exploitation that produces the factory farming industry and thus does more to reduce the harm done to animals than buying non-animal products, or even eating from the dumpster.

Do you know any anarchists who feel the same way, or who live by this principle? Could this approach be considered "vegan"? Does kleptitarianism go beyond being a mere "lifestyle" or "diet"? Does being a kleptitarian *actually* reduce meat production, or might big barbecues with fancy stolen meat lead others to buy more meat legally in the future? Is there anything inherently wrong with eating meat, even if it's stolen?

Is kleptitarianism a moralist practice rather than an anarchist one? More broadly, how does kleptitarianism, or the promotion of theft as a regular practice, relate to a notion that as anarchists there is more to life than attacking capitalist modes of production?

Is this question even relevant for anarchists? If not, what annoys you the most about this topic? How is it wrong? What should we be talking about instead?

There are 78 Comments

are you suggesting that we give up on dumpsters? that we give up on the glory of the moldy bagel, on the half-full trash-latte? kleptitarians are too afraid to get dirty in those dumpsters. they cling to their bourgeois "clean" food. pathetic.
freeganism forever!

"Is kleptitarianism a moralist practice rather than an anarchist one?"

*sighs*

What kind of question is this?

I often deal with children and everywhere they're being taught that stealing is wrong and the cops are some kind of heroic mascots who gonna save them. Petty thievery is literally treated as a top sin, and getting caught doing it means hell on earth... while literally no one's going to go after Wall Street hedgies and landlords for racking up on people. Lifting is as moral as immoralism can be.

So fucking yes this means anarchy, as these were my first consciously-anarchist acts.

Hell yeah I couldn't agree more! But I wonder if that particular question is more about whether an attachment to harming capitalist production, and in particular capitalist production that harms animals, is more moralist than anarchist?

All anarchists are moralists. Show me one anarchist text that doesn't involve pompous moralizing. Only Marx is both amoral and correct.

not all anarchists are moralists. you might discover this if you venture outside your local DSA meetings.

Yeah I don't really need to. I just use my Chinese-produced cell phone (thanks Marx and CCP!) to call the local jail or prison and ask for their resident broke-ass anarchist who got caught trying to destroy the "State" and "Capitalism" and is now regretting their moralistic life choices.

If anarchists were really amoral they'd be either smashing capitalism by USING the state (see the ACTUALLY SUCCESSFUL CCP and its correct approach) or be on Wall Street making bank and snorting cocaine. Instead they're living in jail and dumpsters like Jesus would. Go die on the "anti-oppression" cross!

I prefer pulling a Mugabe and go FULL anarchist. Coz anything else would be Purism Moralism!

It's a state of mind brah, we anarchs can live like billionaires without all their baggage, capital and cocaine. We dine of dumpster caviar, bongs of the finest bud and amoral babes with good mannets. We rule our bubbles!

SIGH

this is your weekly reminder that no, not all values can be dismissed as "moralizing", no matter how hard this anon trolls you about it

show me an anarchist value that isn't some slave-morality bullshit

SIIIGH moralizing about moralizing, 5D chess of moralizing, galaxy brain moralizing

how bout resisting domination with violence? literal opposite brah

DUH.
The whole idea that you'd have to RESIST domination rather than be the one DOMINATING shows your slave mentality and slave morality.
checkmate.

these libs call themselves amoralists when really they are just Jesus with Doc Martens rather than sandals.

BUT WAIT

flipping over the chessboard and running away giggling is moralism too!

this is the kind of sarcasm that warms my heart. the idea that one can reject the premises that would be required to conclude that 'everything is moral' is something that the proof-enjoyer may never understand. "but if you don't fully interrogate your principles and motivations then you might INADVERTENTLY be engaging in moralism!" yeah yeah catch me outside, stealin' shit

You rite! We anarchists should join the cops to stop cops! This fear based anarchy is so smart! Doing things that might get us punished by the masters is to be avoided! Thanks for the advice, non-anarchist daily visitor of this anarchist website!

"masters"
this is straight up slave morality
you're a moralist

if you had no morality and any strength you'd be buying off the cops like the MAFIA and using them to put out hits on your enemies for CASH so you could get a fucking YACHT instead of living in a goddamn anarchist DUMPSTER. But instead you'll get caught smashing a window because you're mad about some slave-morality bullshit like the "oppressors" and get a couple years in prison then get released and straighten up and get a job and tell the new anarcho-kiddies that what they're doing is cool but you're beyond that now because you've learned your lesson and can't risk it.

This dummy played themself.

This dummy also think the mafia isn't one of the most hierarchical (masters and slaves) structures of all hominids!

WHAT AN IDIOT!! BRUH PROBABLY DOESN'T EVEN JAY WALK BECAUSE HE SO SCARED TO BREAK THE LAW!

Everybody laugh

I love hierarchy because I'm not a slave. I'm at the top.
I don't need any moral system to justify that.
I don't jaywalk because I don't walk. I pay off the president of the US to take me 2 blocks in air force 1.
He's my homie. We're both zionists because we love dominating.
I'm protected by the cops AND the military AND the secret service.
You can't touch me.
I'm a capitalist through and through. No morals, no qualms.

Baby don't hurt meat.

Don't hurt meat.

No more.

While I agree with the included articles, I read the companion essay and it mentions eating dead bodies. That is awful. How can anyone consider that!? The way I was raised you only fuck dead bodies, not eat them, and only within 10-15 hours after rigor mortis. It would be unethical not to.

More broadly, how does kleptitarianism, or the promotion of theft as a regular practice, relate to a notion that as anarchists there is more to life than attacking capitalist modes of production?

sure, that's probably a valid way to look at it. my opinion is that yes, kleptitarianism focuses only on attacking capitalism and only capitalism, and many seasoned anarchists will tell you that anarchy is not just anti-capitalism.

but i think that another important point to make is that kleptitarians don't believe in respecting the dead, or that someone's carcass has any value beyond being meat, that the living being that that carcass once was still has some "authority" over their body, which is now lifeless meat, organs, skin, maybe some hair, etc. most vegans think otherwise, that the living (now dead) being's decisions over their body still matter in death.

basically, it's "eat every corpse" vs "bury/respect every corpse", with some illegalist sauce on top of it, which i think is a more important distinction to make.

personally, i think kleptitarianism is silly at best, for the reasons mentioned above. i believe in respecting the dead, their bodies, their decisions, including decisions they made regarding their body. if they, while alive, didn't explicitly allow me to eat their corpse, i won't.

but whether you're a kleptitarian or an insurrectionary vegan, i believe you can still call yourself an anarchist, because again, anarchy is not just about anti-capitalism, or whether or not you feel the need to respect the dead.

Please, Master Obfuscator, can you tell us how/why this beautiful new paradigm, kleptarianism, has to do with veganism?

Coz I ain't seeing one here and some ppl are yet again working hard at shoehorning some liberal abstraction within the paradigm. Next thing you know... kleptarianism is gender anarchissst!

Afaik ANYTHING that is found at the store is a product of the capitalist industry. But even if it'd be the product of communist industry, or coops, that's still being a controlled means of deprivation from goods. Safeguarded by some shady collectivist morality and above all enforced by cops and the judidicial system acting as the priest class of moral terrorists... acting as IRL reifiers of the collective Superego.

But on the other hand we all know this is a kleptocracy. So the *consistent* (not purist... not moralist...) nnhrently anarchist response to it would be... kleptarianism! Makes sense to me.

I can see that you're not saying any of that in good faith, especially after calling me a "master obfuscator" and a lib, which means I am most likely wasting my time here. But I digress.

Your hyperfocus on attacking capitalism just proves my point. Also, if kleptitarianism is just "steal shit", couldn't that be considered insurrection or illegalism?

The points you're making about stealing from big businesses are not new, but that's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about the fact that kleptitarians think it's better to steal animal corpses and eat them, than steal and bury them. You can say whatever you want about kleptitarianism not being connected to animal-eating, but the texts that describe that same ideology focus a lot on debunking veganism, because of this view that burying animals is wasteful. So if I'm making the connection between the two, don't blame me, but blame the person who wrote those texts. If the texts weren't clear enough, that's not my fault.

In fact, most of the second volume[1] tries to debunk the most common responses from vegans. Go read it! If it's so important for kleptitarians to dunk on veganism (while also promoting the consumption of animals), then animal-eating is an important part of the ideology. 1 + 1 = 2.

[1]: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-kleptitarianism-volume-2

wouldn't that only be true if the reverse is also true?

therefore, you're implying veganism is hopelessly trapped in ethical consumption logic

I don't have an "hyperfocus" on capitalism, I am only anticap... while recognizing there are deeper issues than capitalism with this civilization, where the former is also a byproduct of the latter. Capitalism would most likely never have become a dominant system without Christianity, but the same can be said of state bureaucracies.

"I was talking about the fact that kleptitarians think it's better to steal animal corpses and eat them"

Here you go again... forcefully equating "kleptarians" with vegans, while in fact there is no implied relationship between the two paradigms, So just because there's a Venn diagram between these tendencies doesn't make them an equation.

I am no vegan (while preferring vegan foods to the industrial shit meat you get from the Costco) and I designte myself as kleptarian. So whatcha u gunna do about it? Nuthin', right. Coz there is no Kleptarian Bible out there telling us it's just about vegan militancy.

first of all, it's pretty clear if you read the text that there's a relationship between kleptitarianism and veganism. and second it's literally in the text of the TOTW: " Could this approach be considered "vegan"?" you might disagree that there isn't a relationship between the concepts, but it's pretty obtuse to insist that the person you're replying to is making a mistake in relating them.

i'm honestly trying to follow. what are you saying about capitalism and christianity and states? and the bible and militancy?

i feel like you could be a sharper troll with some effort, though. 4/10

It's pretty clear that whoever pedantic clown who wrote this text has a bad grasp of language and etymology, as I almost confused "klepTITarianism" for "kleptarianism" thinking we were talking about the same thing! The root word is from the Greek "klepto"... not "kleptito" or "klepti".

Wtf are these guise thinking?

So what's really behind this bold new term... an obsession with tits? I dunno. Regardless, I find it hard to discuss such a really vague term held as paradigm when it's not even being defined, but rather taken as a specific approach to veganism. If so, then I wouldn't care less... all I'm into is discussing KLEPTARIANISM, thank you.

We anarchists are nothing if we can not utilise proper etymological rules! Like man and woman! None of this meaning change stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMBECILE!!
KlepTITarianism is a PORTMANTOE of KLEPTOMANIAC and VEGITARIAN hence, KLEPT-ITARIAN -> KLEPTITAIRAN!!!

WHOSE PEDANTIC NOW!?

BESTIE this is so right! Just like FLEXITARIAN not FLEXTARIAN. what a DUNCE.

my now is pedantic.

btw it's portmanteau.

Don't be ableist.

FREEGAZA
FREEGANGAZA

I like your point that kleptitarianism could actually just be "stealing shit" and so doesn't necessarily need to be related to veganism. So I think it's clear that the author intends to connect it to veganism, but I don't think the point is to debunk veganism. Obviously (to me at least), the author of this text cares about animals and harm and so is articulating a stance that it is important to attack infrastructure that causes the suffering of animals in a way that (the author is arguing) will harm that infrastructure in a way that reduces harm to animals.

But it sounds to me like you are trying to say that there is something external to attacking the (capitalist cause of) harm to animals, that there is some reason why it is important to 'respect/bury' the carcasses of dead animals even when you have no control over whether they died in the first place. Is that right?

(p.s. i replied earlier to you but messed up and it's not in the thread, but it was this: https://anarchistnews.org/comment/60853#comment-60853)

I am interested in the idea that anarchism is more than attacking capitalism. I myself am pretty focused on attack, and in particular attacking capitalism as the force that prevents us from relating to each other outside of modes of production; the force that demands that everything be evaluated by how measurable and profitable it is rather than what it means to us and how we live our lives.

This is my main critique of these essays--they frame what is important within a moral calculus of harm and harm reduction which is just the same framing of capitalism itself. I want to blow up calculus; I want to see the world with my own eyes again, if only for a moment.

What do you have in mind about how anarchism is more than anti-capitalism?

As for respecting the dead, I personally don't have empathy for dead things. I have lots of empathy for animals (including humans) enslaved in factory farms. I would rather hang out with people who eat meat and burn down factory farms than people who pay taxes and buy tofu and tempeh from Whole Foods. But I don't say this to antagonize people who care about veganism, I think it's great to care about things. I just think that the harm that comes about from our actions is much more complex than a straightforward cost-benefit or harm/harm reduction analysis. If vegans really want to harm the meat industry, then stealing meat is better than buying tofu. And respecting bodies that are already dead only results in a total waste and disregard of its life, rather than a respect in actually making use of it.

I somewhat agree with you but I disagree because one this all just seems like utilitarianism. You should engaging in practices that are wrong bc in imaginary moral calculus world X action has the best outcome. The whole idea of what harms capitalism the most is all made up daydreams. Capitalism as a whole is too complicated to predict with such a simple idea. Capitalists regularly use insurance to be unaffected by sabotage or in the case fo the SHAC model if attacked so much capitalists and the government will bail them out just out of spite of the sabotage. And this is just about one bussiness and not about capital as a whole or whatever I can bring up many things.

The issues with this analysis and kleptitarians is it just writes up a supply and demand chart and proaims that's how the world functions when it doesn't. Supply and demand isn't even how economists do analysis. It's just a base building bloc to explain stuff to high schoolers. It's not correct.

So this is more just an issue for egos being so big that ppl can predict the future so simply. Which I wouldn't care about except the point here is kleptitarians is advocating ppl so something that can't possibly be anarchists bc they imagined in their head through utilitarianism that it's better.

But more importantly, veganism is cool not bc it effects supply and demand. I have no idea if veganism saves any animal bc I can't know such a thing. It's interesting and cool bc it's very disruptive to people's cultural way of life. Everytime I eat, I don't even have to say anything and almost everyone starts thinking about how manybr society is fucked up and feels really uncomfortable. Bc it's one of the few times the average American feels uncomfortable with how society works. Bc if everyone loves the industry of baby rape and torture and how most life on human society live a life of misery for the elite society looks horrible and should be changed.

And most ppl don't change. But it helps me find interesting ppl, bc the people who care about the horrors of industry so much they decide to do something are people who very often are worth knowing. And often times they agree with most of what I say bc being vegan primes many ppl to realize other stuff about society.

It's a lifestyle that literally u do nothing and people fucking hate u. I don't say anything and just eat food and lots of people will debate and gosip about me. Bc burning down a slaughter house has 0 effect on regular people's way of life. Meeting a vegan often makes one of the central normalcies of society become tainted and gives many extreme discomfort with the horrors of society.

Veganism won't save any animal. I like it bc I really can't release most animal bc ppl will just capture or kill them. Having places to release animal to be free requires a reterritorializes place where ppl see them as valuable living things that they shouldn't own. Veganism is a basic step in reterritorializinf space and culture so that can be possible.

I think this trail of thought of how does culture change and how do I live in a way which is compatible with a more anarchist space much better than imagining whats the most utilitarian thing to do. And making up random moral calculus about what hurts capitalism most.

> You should engaging in practices that are wrong bc in imaginary moral calculus world X action has the best outcome.

if i am reading you correctly, you are saying that the kleptitarian position is that people should engage in things that are 'wrong' because 'the ends justify the means'. --that kleptitarianism (falsely) believes that it it is important to weigh actions on the basis of what future outcome it will bring about, but that this is a bad position because it is not possible to correctly calculate the (harmful or helpful) impact of an action on an outcome.

i am sympathetic about the position that it is very difficult to specify how a particular action affects an outcome. and i am also open to the question of whether it's important to do things that have a desired outcome. but there is a very explicit assumption in your statement--'engaging in practices that are wrong'--that i am curious about. so you're saying it's inherently wrong to eat animals?

> The issues with this analysis and kleptitarians is it just writes up a supply and demand chart and proclaims that's how the world functions when it doesn't.

okay, i'm sympathetic to this as well. i also think it's fucking dumb. but this is kinda just an assertion?

> kleptitarianism is advocating ppl do something that can't possibly be anarchists bc they imagined in their head through utilitarianism that it's better

so what you're saying is that anarchist action can, on principle, never overlap with utilitarianism? like is the anarchist way to just avoid anything with a whiff of utilitarianism?

> [veganism] is interesting and cool bc it's very disruptive to people's cultural way of life. Every time I eat, I don't even have to say anything and almost everyone starts thinking about how maybe society is fucked up and feels really uncomfortable. Bc it's one of the few times the average American feels uncomfortable with how society works... And most ppl don't change. But it helps me find interesting ppl, bc the people who care about the horrors of industry so much they decide to do something are people who very often are worth knowing. And often times they agree with most of what I say bc being vegan primes many ppl to realize other stuff about society.

fuck yeah, this is one of my favorite arguments for veganism! when people feel uncomfortable and question their own lifestyles in response to vegans merely doing nothing, by vegans literally abstaining from something very minor, demonstrates to you and me and them how fragile their worldview is. and even if that doesn't stick, it's still an assault on culture that normalizes things that people obviously realize on some level aren't normal.

> Veganism is a basic step in reterritorializinf space and culture so that can be possible.

nothing can create the conditions to 'reterritorialize' space for domesticated animals. same for you and me. i'll yip and howl and rip and tear at the moral fabrics of society and party with friends and fight like hell to keep trying, though!

>I think this trail of thought of how does culture change and how do I live in a way which is compatible with a more anarchist space much better than imagining whats the most utilitarian thing to do. And making up random moral calculus about what hurts capitalism most.

I completely agree with you that reimagining culture and anarchism can be more important than crunching the numbers. but the calculus is more than random. it controls our territories if not our lives. we don't have to fight it on its terms (even fighting is a choice). So, then? what shall we do, act as if it's imperative to not consider what is worth doing? shall we do nothing? shall we keep talking?

>i am sympathetic about the position that it is very difficult to specify how a particular action affects an outcome. and i am also open to the question of whether it's important to do things that have a desired outcome. but there is a very explicit assumption in your statement--'engaging in practices that are wrong'--that i am curious about. so you're saying it's inherently wrong to eat animals?

I mean I do stuff in my day to day life I do stuff to make life better in the future. But you shouldn't throw ones values away bc of what they are imagining what will happen in the future. I only do plans for the future if I'm okay with the means. I mean I just said wrong for brevidty. I mean in the egoist sense. Its desirable for how I live that eating animals isn't desirable and I don't really want others arround me doing it. Rather than a christian moral set in stone for the whole world.

>okay, i'm sympathetic to this as well. i also think it's fucking dumb. but this is kinda just an assertion?

I have never heard a professional or academic economist talk about supply and demand the way kleptitarians do. I only head it done in entry level econ classes to simplify concepts way down. I don't like economics so I don't base my arguments in in. But its pretty obviosly a massive oversimplification if u listen to any mildly competent academic economics disscussion.

>so what you're saying is that anarchist action can, on principle, never overlap with utilitarianism? like is the anarchist way to just avoid anything with a whiff of utilitarianism?

I'll keep my mind open but I have never seen utilitainanism seen in any desirable way

>nothing can create the conditions to 'reterritorialize' space for domesticated animals. same for you and me. i'll yip and howl and rip and tear at the moral fabrics of society and party with friends and fight like hell to keep trying, though!

oh yeah I think my belifs regarding this arn't routed in reality and is stuff I choose to belive cuz its fun. So ur accurate

>I completely agree with you that reimagining culture and anarchism can be more important than crunching the numbers. but the calculus is more than random. it controls our territories if not our lives. we don't have to fight it on its terms (even fighting is a choice). So, then? what shall we do, act as if it's imperative to not consider what is worth doing? shall we do nothing? shall we keep talking?

nah, I think most attack is fine. I think most anarchist activity is good I like it even if I complain about it. I am just talking about stuff where the attack is just comprimising ur beliefs. Kleptitarianism is eerilie similar to the logic of voting in that ppl think what they are doing is bad but make up some moral calculus that they think comprimising their values will overall be detrimental to society. All attack is good, if u aren't just assymilating urself into mainstream culture. Being an anti specisit carnists to hurt society seems like voting in that the anarchist is becoming much more harmed by liberalizing their values by a hope of hurtin society. 99% of attack is good tho

Wal-mart perhaps a year ago said if thr storm of shoplifting continued, they'd have ro close some of their stores. Many who consider Wal-Mart to be essentiall fencing goods stolen from sweatshop workers took that up as a challenge. They took more not less and Wal-Mart shut down some.of their urban stores. In DC they closed their H st location. Giant is just 4 blocks away wirh better
groceries.

There is a reaon this is called the "hyperboycott"

Corporatism precept : Make profit by whatever means. The more stealing means the loss is passed onto customers with higher prices to cover losses. In some poorer demographics unable to afford increased costs the stores are closed and workers sacked. Profit % is still maintained, capitalism hunkers in whilst more folk become homeless or go hungry.

higher prices reduce profits, that's the idea. losses are passed on to customers but that both decreases demand (and thus profit) and increases the likelihood of theft, which further causes a spiral, and as you said, can destroy the reason for having the shop there at all.

stores closed and workers sacked is good; work is bad.
unemployed and homeless means riots and figuring out other ways to live. riots good.

they might be able to keep the rate of profit the same by closing a store but total profit drops as well as profit growth when a shop closes. total profit matters, otherwise there would be no reason to ever expand! and that's what they're constantly doing because they always need new markets.

in capitalism you either grow or die. let's make them die!

Riots and revheads make capitalists hunker down in bunkers and unleash a nuclear war. :/

Can we steal the meat to masturbate with or do we have to eat that nasty shit? I want to join your gang but need to get this sorted out first.

yes the hazing ritual for kleptitarianism is mandatory masturbation with meat. you know what to do with that liver.

"The argument is that stealing meat is more harmful to the capitalist system of exploitation that produces the factory farming industry and thus does more to reduce the harm done to animals than buying non-animal products, or even eating from the dumpster."

You know what would be EVEN MORE harmful to the capitalist system of exploitation? Straight up killing capitalists. Finding their addresses and going to their homes and handling them ITS style.

Why beat around the bush and waste time with petty shit like stealing meat from supermarkets? Just. Fucking. Kill. Your. Enemies!

KILL KILL KIIIIIIILLLLLLL!
For Wild Nature

sorry basement neckbeard but you gotta get outta your basement to kill capitalists.
you gotta learn to use a weapon.
you gotta learn to escape and evade and live life on the run.

that requires not being a little bitch.

NoOoooo I am A MaFiA bOss I HvaE MiNIOn sOldIErs To KEel fOr mE!

Before a bunch of CEO's can disappear and a sack containing their heads can land on the Mayor's desk, a lot of hard work and training has to be done. In addition to the weapons training and the escape and evasion trainings, someone needs to be a good enough carpenter to build the damned guillotine. Most of all, all of this requires that people learn to work together, and that our firing squads stop being circular!

nothing makes me roll my eyes more than some anarcho-20-somethings stealing from supermarkets, looking at Bonnot et al. and unironically thinking: "hE's LiTeRaLlY mE!!"

lol... lmao even.

sry but i rly don't get it. what's bad about 20-somethings committing crime and feeling like they are resurrecting the spirit of the bonnot gang? i'm honestly scratching my head trying to figure out why anyone would thing this is bad.

let a thousand bonnot gangs bloom for every 20-something who steals from a shop and feels emboldened by it!

because its nothing more than just a LARPy little posture one should grow out of in their teens.

You're right, we all should just grow up, put the fun and games away, get a job, buy a house, and spend all our time watching Black Mirror on Netflix and post idiotic comments like this on anews. I am sure what you spend your time doing is sooooo Real and Mature and Not LARPy At All.

being a petty shoplifter is NOT a viable, long-term sustainable plan to live ones life.

have fun shoplifting pokemon cards from Target for a few years until you get caught on that fuckshit.

the actual revolutionary amoralist thing would be to engage in the things that actually provide you with LEVERAGE in this world. So, things like: buying land, building a house, acquiring skills, learning a trade, making smart investments, going to the gym, building a longterm community, and so on.

what's your little bonnotlarp supposed to even accomplish? why get caught racking a couple packs of goat cheese when you can just MAKE FUCKIN MONEY and just buy it??

bonnot and crew were fucking losers btw. Imagine living in a time where there were NO cameras, NO motorized police, NO computerized databases, NO Artifical Intelligence, NOTHING... and still getting caught within... what... 6-7 months?? Lmao what a bunch of sketchy heatscore fuckups!

Don't get me wrong. It's a cool story and all. But Bonnot isn't exactly someone you should model your life around hahaha.,

"Why are reactionary shitbag prepper-types always attracted to anarchist spaces? Why do they always feel the need to share their expert opinions on why their way is the best way and that anarchists are doing it wrong? Topic of the week?

Just buy land, feast on venison, invest wisely, and lift weights brahs! We are so free!

fucking vomit. you gonna really try to say some dumb shit about taking medication on an anarchist forum? you do realize that the U.S. has a history of forcefully lobotomizing people with dissenting attitudes, right? asshole.

Are the voices telling you to vomit? Do they tell you to do other things? How do you feel about that?

[Part I: "A Report to the Shareholders"]

[Verse 1: El-P]
Beware of horses
I mean a horse is a horse of course, but who rides is important
Sitting high with a uniform, barking orders, demanding order
And I'm scared that I talk too much about what I think's going on
I got a way with this, they might drag me away for this

Put me in a cage for this, I might pay for this
I just say what I want like I'm made for this
But I'm just afraid some days I might be wrong
Maybe that's why me and Mike get along
Hey, not from the same part of town, but we both hear the same sound coming
Woo! And it sounds like war
Woo! And it breaks our hearts

You're getting upset for whatever reason but where Im from "medication" is slang for hormones. I think the anon was encouraging you to take your hormones so that you could be your best self as a headless acephale with a girldick in one hand and a machete in the other.

sounds like you need to talk, anon. why are you bringing up the topic of another post from another website on this thread about stealing food? and why is it always specifically about girldick and weapons? who hurt you?

I've been caught stealing more than once but I don't do it anymore because it's not worth the risk of losing my current social status. Veganism works as transvaluation by adopting higher ethical standards than the status quo but I think harm reduction advocacy is the best way to reduce animal cruelty overall. You might be able to hard sell veganism to a handful of radicals but you need to soft sell it to the masses to get them to change their habits. Mobbing stores and releasing animals from farms raises awareness on myself, but I don't know how much of an effect it has on the rest of the world unless you get some publicity for it.

Reformist drivel!

If they refuse to be vegan then refuse them their teeth!!!

> I've been caught stealing more than once but I don't do it anymore because it's not worth the risk of losing my current social status.

I'm sorry, what? what social status do you have that's 'not worth losing'? have you taken a look outside?

> Veganism works as transvaluation by adopting higher ethical standards than the status quo but I think harm reduction advocacy is the best way to reduce animal cruelty overall. You might be able to hard sell veganism to a handful of radicals but you need to soft sell it to the masses to get them to change their habits.

reformist spotted

> Mobbing stores and releasing animals from farms raises awareness on myself, but I don't know how much of an effect it has on the rest of the world unless you get some publicity for it.

we don't want to raise awareness. we want death, we want fire, we want freedom, we want danger, we want chaos, we want everything!

Oooh, AlldayAllweekOR isn't a reformist, has never asked for any improvements in everyday conditions, OR lives neolithic and never suggested to his tribe to start wearing fur coats to prevent pneumonia!
You are conflating reformist with progress.

To:alldayallweekoc

I don't mean to be a late Leonard here but what exactly is outside that I need to see?

Do you not think that bum rushing stores and liberating animals from farms are good actions? I do. Propaganda of the deed is an old idea but until I saw burning mansions and police stations on the news I didn't even know people did things like this. When some people see it they say "oh these people should be in jail!", but others think "under the right circumstances I would do that too."

as i see it "kleptitarianism, or the promotion of theft as a regular practice, " just reinforces the notion of property.

take things or not, as suits your temperament, but to call it theft only shores up the idea that the things don't actually belong to you.

*possessions

no. i meant to say property. if you have some argument that i should rather say possessions then explicitly say that.

what i meant is, the law says certain things are the property of certain corporations, let's say, and theft implies taking these without legal say so. anarchy is, in part, refusing this. but if you still call it theft, you've lost ½ the battle.

one probably would be wise to keep in mind what law says about property because as of yet, jail is still a thing.

Proudhon certainly was long winded.

His long windedness compensated for other less long things. Just ask Shawn Wilbur.

Similarly, the immaterialism of the orgasm is at the other extreme, there's a holistic balance to a fulfilling anarchic consciousness where property is a triviality.

in terms of ANY "should" or lifestyle anarchism, is moralistic.

Speakers of spanish use the same word for the delusion of "should" and owing money (the word looks very similar to "debt" in its written form) because these constructs that "anarchists" derive are always a [sometimes subtle] form of proselytizing, preaching, and/or feeling superior. However, taking something because you want it is different, and doesn't have to be moralistic.

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