TOTW: Investment

The other week the lot of you talked about land projects, but there are numerous other ways to think about land. Land can be looked at as a resource …as something to be consumed. It can be looked at as something sacred, deserving special regard, duties, etc. It can be looked at as a means of production, as part of a “project”.

One other way to look at land is to look at as an investment: something that you will put your time, energy, and/or money into for whatever reasons that don’t need to be speculative.

The relationship between investment, typically characterized by the pursuit of profit within a structured economic system, and anarchism, a political philosophy that advocates for a society without hierarchies or a state, presents an intriguing paradox. This week, lets consider this and some of the following questions:

1. Can investment practices be aligned with anarchist principles, which often emphasize communal welfare, egalitarianism, and the rejection of hierarchical structures?
2. How might anarchist theories critique traditional investment models that are built within capitalist frameworks?
3. Are there examples of investment strategies or models that have been successfully implemented in line with anarchist ideals?
4. What role, if any, can ethical or social-responsible investing play in bridging the gap between anarchism and investment?
5. How do anarchist perspectives challenge our understanding of wealth, ownership, and economic power?

EDIT: above, it is pointed out that investment “don’t need to be speculative”. Comments so far seem to be stuck on the idea that “investment” is something only capitalists do. It doesn’t even need to involve money. If you want to talk about speculative investments, go for it. But that really is not what this topic is aiming at. You could even talk about how anarchists invest time and energy into stuff like ARR vs other things…

There are 37 Comments

these are some lessons i've picked up from some of my "peers" along the way. unfortunately, they don't apply to me and some of my closer crew, but, oh well....no biggie. keep yer head up!

1. be born into intergenerational wealth.

2. play revolutionary for a few years (maybe decades if there is a monthly stipend).

3. cash in on trust fund.

4. open some hip business that makes you feel cool enough.

5. repeat.

If we're talking about capitalist investments, that are by default not quite ethical... I go for precious metals for long-term stability & profits. Not lithium tho as it's got some dangerous developing outcomes, like "better" hostile drones n shit.

Logistics industry maybe a lil less unethical with good turn outs, but still about supporting motor vehicles and all their massive pollution, where "small and local" doesn't really mean less harmful. I'd say anarchists starting their own logistics shadow business would be much better, and I'd put my money on any good anarcho-supportive business scheme. Btw ever noticed how bikepackers don't get as much attention at police checkpoints than motorists do? Ha.

And anarcho banks why not? Still better than presumed prisoner support networks that only use the worse money transfer schemes (i.e. Paypal, and some app that only works in the US, lol).

I know about a regional alternative zero-interest currency network that's kinda interesting, and appealing to those seeking to get out of the banking system, or can't work with it.

There's some eco-socially conscious startup financing schemes out there tho not sure how reliable in the long run. Also small capital is still capital, maybe?

So anyways, good TOTW as finance seems to me like one of.the top matters for anarchists with brains.
There's some things money can't buy... like love (The Beatles said so!), friendship, lifting and dumpster poutines. But for the rest there's anarchist finance.

Anarchist banks are ok, but no loans or interest, just a place to put your 500 dollars for a rainy day. But don't be surprised if an anarchist criminal like the Durretti gang comes along and steals it, but they wouldn't cos the bank isn't capitalist, right?

Also, like if some "anarchist" comes along to deposit 50,000 bucks the bank's board could refuse, or demand 10% to go towards an anarchist orphanage. Anarchists CAN manage money for good causes, not for selfish excessive greed.

"anarchist"
"orphanage"

Okay I'd like to hear more about potential charitable outlets that might not involve more Hakim Bey you-know-what-I-mean type of stuff.

Med and dental clinics for anarcho-poors might be a good idea, but who's crazy enough to go study in medicine for then getting a super low sliding scale wage out of tough work and pay the expensive equipment, I wonder.

So that's why I'm saying.... we defo need a kind of anarchist secret society, to provide with an unlimited social safety net to the nomadic members of the cult. I'd put my money on that if some collectives would get their shit together and set that up!

Disappear the next day, whoops! Why not smile and shake the customers hand first?

Hear me out. Anarcobank invests anarchist money in bank robbers. Getting them guns and a getaway car. They rob a non-anarchist bank and if they bring back the money you get a decent return on investment.

WE AT ANARCOBANK PROMISE OUR CRIMINAL CLIENTS A 50% RETURN ON THE MONEY THEY STEAL FROM CAPITALIST BANKS OR FROM OTHER ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES IN OUR EXCLUSIVE -- FELONS-LAUNDERING ACCOUNTS! WE AVOID PROSECUTION BY ACTUALLY FUNCTIONING LIKE EVERY OTHER CAPITALIST BANK, YES, OUR LAWYERS HAVE DISCOVERED INGENIOUS LOOPHOLES SO THAT THEY ESCAPE PROSECUTION, AND YOU CAN INVEST IN PROPERTY AND BECOME A RESPECTABLE CITIZEN FELON, LIKE MOST WEALTHY PEOPLE ARE BY DEFAULT, CONSIDERING WE ARE ALL ON STOLEN LAND.

What is a Durretti gang? You mean that non-gang who wasn't afraid of ruins!? Oh you meat that Bonnot gang that happened like over 100 years ago... When was the last time anarchists robbed banks anywhere else than in Greece and Italy?

Oso Blanco last robbed banks in New Mexico in 2001. And José Fernandez Delgado (one of the Aachen 4) robbed a bank in Karlsruhe, Germany in 2004. Maybe thats your answer?

True, there's Oso Blanco, who's indeed a badass model for an anarchist warrior. The fact he's from a non-White ethnic background but from the Native American fringes made me overlook it.

There seems to be a trend of small town bank robberies in northwest Germany that isn't inherently anarchist (crime does not really have a political stance, besides its own), but sure.

My point was more about the dominant anarchist cultures being oblivious of that aspect of illegalism, and instead seeking legal, often even consumerist ways to accumulate money.

Wow this is really offensive. There are only 3 options for anarchists if u don't do them ur an anti anarchist. Anarchism is about being broke the more broke you are the more anarchist.

1: be homeless and eat at food banks and dumpsters

2: get really good at begging and couch surfing

3: have a low wage job so u spend all ur time stressed about money and never have any to spare. If by chance there is some money left in the account you must give it all away to beggers. If u end the month with 20 dollars ur a bad anarchist. That number should always be 0 or negative.

Real anarchy to me is about pidgenholing yourself so much that you can't possibly help people. I love having no money and when friends are in need my only help is to teach them how to beg or teach them to be homeless because not being broke is anti anarchist!

If an investment means, "I'm going to put this in, and I'm going to get this out," anarchist investment tends to mean, "I'm going to put this in, and I'm going to get nothing out (or who knows what I'll get out, if anything)."

Anarchists will put a LOT in without any reason to expect much of a return or a payoff. I guess you could say we're highly speculative (or you could say we're the opposite: not speculative at all, no real expectations).

I guess it's a means and ends thing. A lot of what I get out of what I do is in the activity itself. I'm not sure how much else I expect. Maybe I expect some engagement and some connection, but...

I don't know about the anarcho-bank talk, but I do agree with certain other commenters that it's silly and pointless to reflexively self-marginalize (by turning poverty into a moral imperative, for example).

Ultimately I'm not sure how much investing I do, really. I certainly don't conceptualize my behavior in that way. In many ways I'm the stereotypical irresponsible, horrible-with-money anarchist. I may have expectations from the people around me, but it's not like I'm banking on putting in a nickel and getting out a dime. It's more like investing time and attention in someone or something because I love them and believe in them. In other words, there isn't a calculation behind it, and that IS important for anarchist intercourse. But when it comes to the more societal/utilitarian aspects of survival, of course, we're all made to be calculating machines.

I'm God. I created this place. I'm the only anarchist. Don't believe the hype.

Psychic investments yes, financial investments-- maybe? But I couldn't finance my way out of a paper bag. And I'm tongue-cheek-anyway because I'm talking about micro-projects like a poetry chapbook or art poster. I'm more into my psychic investments, obsessions for anarchy, etc. They live in my head rent free!

Yeah mind over matter, there's also enabling empathy, emotion over morality, or ontological investment.

Unpopular opinion, I work a straight job in healthcare and save for retirement and maintain a brokerage with extra income invested. I don't spend as much as I make, I don't envision making this much forever. I bought a house and currently live with my family so I rent to friends for half of market rate. As I pay off the house it will be less. Not purist, not ideal but don't want to be left with nothing or work full time forever. Anarchists live in the gray areas, it's better to leverage what you can and give others support when you can than to pretend working with no resources is noble. Or something.

Real anarchism shouldn't have ethics especially concerning survival and putting a meal on the table and a roof over your head. It's about empathy, like you helping out friends and not being selfish. We 8 billion people can't just go wild and primitivist and watch half of their family die from disease, exposure to the elements, starvation. Basically, overpopulation altered the whole dynamic, all of humanity cannot all be investors owning a house and living a contended lifestyle. Somethings gotta give, it's already giving, wars, pandemics, climate induced famine, it's here, so don't invest in longterm payouts, only those in bunkers will be content. Invest in preparation.

The grey area of landlordism? "As I pay off the house it will be less." You *and your friends* are paying off the house. Unless you pay them back at the end, it is very hard to see this as "grey area." Capitalism is a relationship between people. You are not doing your friends a favor. Your friends are (by coercion) doing you a favor.

Yeah its all coercion. Anarchists trying to opt out of the cycle but never having what they need, and paying equity firms through corporations thousands a month to meerly exist isn't awesome either. Eventually as costs go down and so will rent, until it's just splitting basic maintenance. "Paying back at the end" when you sell for speculative profit? Don't you object to that too? Perfect is the enemy of practical. Lots of models for cooperative ownership exists. They definitely require people vest and commit, which for many reasons lots of people don't want to do. Providing cheap/affordable space isn't perfect but it's something.

A! invested in infrastructure (and learning how to use it). We're all reaping the benefits of that. This topic could entirely be about ways that we give to anarchist projects that tend to invisible to other people. and the benefits and costs of that invisibility, as well as of the giving.

don't make me talk more about a! and how he supported all kinds of anarchist projects that he didn't particularly believe in (and by support i mean, hosting, including in plans, making time and room for, trouble shooting for, etc.)

There is no benefit to any of this. Y'all have just applied your own layer of management onto the conversation. We need anarchist infrastructure reparations to level the playing field because y'all started from a position of privilege and imposed your views on the whole ass thing.

No one is forcing you to be here. voluntarily disassociate already ffs

I don't OWN people, people don't COME to me! Sure, I am a river to FAMILY organically, and I'll help strangers out, but it stops there, mkay!

Why did the moderators here post a trash article fedjacketing people and calling for them to be doxxed when it isn't even "news"? The article came out months ago (and it's by a transphobic anti-Semite), but they posted it this week for no discernible reason.

Is the trash article calling for people here in the thread with us to be doxxed right now? Or is there some reason, an indiscernible one, perhaps, that you're spamming other threads with paranoid claims that some other article is calling for people to be doxxed?

I have done it! The future is amazing, what all these liberals don't understand is that we are heading to a green anarchist utopia. If you invest, then nothing can go wrong, it's about faith dude. Stay focused not on what money is worth right now, but what it will be worth in the future.

Your obviously sarcastic comment shows how little you engaged with the actual spirit of this TOTW. You saw the word ‘investment’ and assumed it’s only about money and jumped right away to talking shit.

For the perennial trollstalkers of this site that invest lots of time in discouraging anarchist discussions, what’s your longterm outlook?

Maybe you are content with your dopamine day trading?

I would have not thought that some picture of some dude in a suite watering a plant shaped like an up arrow had anything to do with money. Please enlighten us, you are smart, I think investing in land projects is an anti-capitalist endevour and should be praised...it need not have anything to do with money or speculation!

Wow, I'm just impressed by the amount of specific information involved in the TOTW, Also, yes, those trollstalkers are taking away all the beauty of anarchist discussion, we need serious good faith commenters to englighten us all in how to talk and find ourselves again! Let's do breathing exercises.

Please mods make sure all future totw pictures are direct, clear indication of the actual topic and not any play on what the topic is opposed to. This isn’t a crust punk album where a vegan band can put dead animals on the cover while screaming about vivisection.

trolls who assume that investment has to do with money and structured society! I want to talk about anarchist investments! I am so sick of the bad faith shit-jacketers who get in the way of real and serious anarchist conversations!

That's right: let's talk about real investments, not those fake normie capitalist investments. I will invest my time and love into revolutionary land projects. What are YOU doing with your life?

I invest time in planting seeds in the Earth and fertilizing them with droppings from my shitjacket that nourish the soils. Thanks TOTW! Great anarchist discussion each week when themoderators allow us. May we have some more please in the New Year?

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