Liberty and Logos: Episode 7 – Violence, values & justice

From Liberty and Logos

Amory Devereux and Bellamy Fitzpatrick discuss the current situation of widespread protests and riots throughout the Western world, BLM, and the theoretical connections between shared values and the need to defend them.

Block’s Libertarian Punishment Theory:

Lotus Oak:

Survival International:

There are 36 Comments

Is there a way to get an audio-only version of this?

I appreciate Bellamy for trying to bridge many different ideologies with this project. I also welcome Amory’s insights but the science around the Vax stuff is wrong. I don’t think we need to worship at the altar of scientists or state sanctioned vaccines. I do think it’s worth forming your own opinion and to look into it. The Twitter is just a Twitter though and it’s full of false information. Having studied different forms of alternative medicine there are some things only conventional western medicine can treat currently.

> Having studied different forms of alternative medicine there are some things only conventional western medicine can treat currently

That's because all effective alternative medicines were destroyed by, you guessed it, state sanctioned science

One good thing about Western medicine is they have got amputations mastered, even sewing shit back on, gotta love that, give me a hug doc, I luv ya like my arm or leg :)

I think that's sci-fi which you are mistaking for real abilities, you are in denial of disabilities, you give humans reptilian powers, like skinks growing new tails, you are insane!

When you're speculating and experimenting on a well-demonstrated context of application (the healing current in salamanders to artificially inducing similar healing current in mammals).

Sci-fi is a mostly-imagined realm that cannot be experimented due to the technical/social unavailability of what can make the venture possible in the first place.

Something nasty creepy and nazi-esque growing limbs onto people in hidden laboratories methinks unanarchistic.

I have a parallel take/hypothesis on the vaccine effect that makes me not reject them like the green med alternative types.

I reject the existence of an immune system, there is simply no data to suggest that such a thing exists and I would recommend people look into Jamie Cunliffe for a less wrong alternative explanation to what is really going on. I adopt Cunliffe's morphostasis hypothesis If you read his body of work I think you have a very good alternative explanation for the vaccine effect that is based on a commensalist explanation not an immune system based one.

Now, following all of this, I'm not against vaccines as such. I think the alopathic engineered commensalist affect can be a useful tool against civilizations diseases at least as we currently stand. However, because I operate on a Selyean stress theory of disease and not a germ theory one I do think the commensalist effect can be overused and abused. Because the germ theorists think that the adaptive 'immune' process is a quantitative muscle that can be repeatedly used they don't suppose that vaccines can be overdone to the point of co-factoring into certain stresses(neurological for instance). The adaptive commensalist effect is not something that should be abused via quantitative vaccine schedules. If anything there should be discussion about sunsetting vaccines and dealing with the underlying toxic stress factors that drove the rise of these acute species spillover diseases(I agree with the spillover theory but I have different explanation for what this is that is not germ theory based). We can talk about the animal captivity that drives stress and toxicity in the animals held captive and put an end to-at the very least-quantitative concentrated animal captivity. In conjunction with this you create holistic regenerative health networks that vastly reduce these acute contact diseases.

There could still be a place for vaccines as understood as toxic commensalist alopathic mechanisms but a modest place.

Indeed. The theory needs to be pitched.

We're seeing heavy metabolic disorder in the most severe cases of covid. In other words: a comprehensive lifestyle change needs to occur.

One thing really short in severe cases: glutathione.

You can get a precursor for this pretty easily, under the name NAC.

I have read enough data now to investigate RNA information messenger cells as links mutated chronic harbingers of dysfunction.

That what a lot of these viral diseases amount to. What germ theorists cannot for the life of them figure out is that biological stress is contagious. This should have been the post-Pasteur/germ theory elaboration on Selye's theories of stress. Different viral pathologies correspond with different toxicological stress factors. Keep an eye out for the latest data out of toxicogenomics. If you know how to read between the lines they are basically giving you some useful information to deconstruct germ theory dogma.

The other alternative is German New Medicine and I'm simply not interested in that nonsense even though there are some people who I rather like at the level of values who are into that(Kelly Brogan for instance). Contrarian through and through I want data that's on my side.

Amory's comments are pretty close to "acarcho"-cap liberal shit, in what concerns to justice, rationality, and organization (non-aggression principle). Something pretty antagonic with anarchy... Walter Block is a great apologist of pimp's economy... How ugly it looks to see in their shared references a link to survival international and at the same time to Block's bullshit on justice...

you're just stringing words together there, pal

>Something pretty antagonic with anarchy

what is? justice? rationality? organisation? i'm not a fan of any of those things but i don't see how any of them are antagonistic to anarchy

> Walter Block is a great apologist of pimp's economy

okay, but that isn't the part being referenced in the podcast. every time someone references bakunin we don't just to his anti-semitic letters, do we?

> How ugly it looks to see in their shared references a link to survival international and at the same time to Block's bullshit on justice...

would you rather they didn't link to survival international?

We call them ANCAPLIBs, though my mom called them ANCLAPS, we had a small ritual which developed from the time I got out of diapers about 16 yrs ago, but we would cLAPHands whenever we spotted one, as a code and joke between ourselves when out in general public, up until the time she passed away 4 yrs back.

They are more common than you think, they actually form much of the core of the anti-Trump demographic. Look around you and they have filled the places of management which have embraced the popular "woken" ideology., about 25--35 % depending where you live.

Anarchy means primal anarchy, or it is just a buzz word. That you cannot achieve with rational thoughts on justice, economics or organization. Rationality is the core of civilization and thus antagonic to any non-state society (non state at all). Bakunin was just a product of white civilized peoples, not my duty to save his reputation.

Yes, I'm the authority of the meaning I want to put in the words I use. Thou not a pretty socialist on that matters...

*squeaking like a mouse whispering* anarchists rise up and be autonomous and ignore authority, but still observe the speed limit and don't steal cars.

That's the voice of the undisciplined primal-anarch devoid of customary behavioral mannerisms. A different beast to the primitivist-anarchist because the primal-anarch behaves naturally and eats meat and still uses hunting weapons and will not take shit from feminist-anarchists!

Amory doesn't call himself an anarchist at all, so why are you trying to put him in a box he would refuse?

He also said on a different episode that he's not an AnCap because he thinks they don't have a good response to all of the violence used to arrive at current property distribution.

ha, bellamy's reaction at 36:15 when amory discloses anything-goes revenge sentencing as something close to his idea of justice

39:15* whoops

damn, bellamy is a moralist that wants a political system? shit, he's definitely changed his perspective since i spoke with him.

As far as I know his view is still basically the one articulated in An Invitation to Desertion. He said in a previous episode of L&L something about how he would write it a little bit differently, but it was still the best summary of his position. So, not that different, I think.

Is there a video, audio recording, or writing where Bellamy explains why he's trying to become a psychotherapist? Is he a big fan of social control? I just imagine his goal is to try to condition young kids to become feral and live in the woods. Perhaps he's trying to become a psychotherapist to start some sort of anarcho-cult.

That 12-stepper's twitter account was kind of funny. They have a long way to go before they're the next Jenny McCarthy or Deepak Chopra.

Being knowledgeable in psychological processes comes in handy when involved in politics, profiling ones opposition for starters. Standard psyops stuff, know thy enemy, the Art of War catalogue.

Maybe just one of his hobbies. I remember the first time I came across a Freudian based diagnostic book describing psychosis and neurosis and it was fascinating and so accurate and interesting identifying the symptoms one had to compare with those in the book. Great fun while tripping ;)

It takes some humility to even declare any intetest in psychotherapy, its a taboo subject amongst the revolutionary cadres and power brokers. Psychological terms like -- narcissistic--sociopathic---psychotic ---megalomaniacal---delusions of grandeur---obsessive compulsive---sadistic---are all conditions common amongst the politically active and materialist masculine dominant leaders, with little interest in the inner thinking processes of the individual, which is seen as weak and feminine tendency,----he should be commended for valiantly directing the anarchist future towards a psychosocial-esque constitution.

it's just known by those with a radical anti-cap and deeper systemic critique as a reactionary practice of social control, as far as it isolates people in a case-based framework of clinical analysis, as detached as much as possible from the social context. Much attention is given to the family background in psychotherapy, yet there's always this "cleansing" from those social and economic factors psychologists have been always so careless about, by design.

Actually I thought Freud's, Jung's Stirner's, Nietzsche's, Heidegger's and Reich's critique of family values, oedipal neurosis and the conditioning within the family/church moral hegemony as pioneering introductions to what contributes to the (r)evolutionary theories of the construction and institutional themes within the social/cultural matrix. But maybe I'm a dumb materialist who got "cleansed"and got it all wrong?

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