TOTW: Same Pandemic, Different Day

Yet in some regions it will likely open up possibilities for the spread of civilisation’s rule. Some lands may remain (relatively) temperate — climatically and socially. As for civilisation, so for anarchy and anarchists — severely challenged, sometimes vanquished; possibilities for liberty and wildness opening up, possibilities for liberty and wildness closing. The unevenness of the present will be made more so. There is no global future." - Desert

Heading into the second week of this oh-so-euphemistic Shelter-In-Place, I want to look beyond the immediate boredom and struggle of confinement. When we finally emerge from this enforced hibernation, what will the world look like? I imagine pretty much the same, but with some temporarily clean-ish air and maybe some more empty-ish streets. I also foresee a lot more of our friends unemployed or at least more precarious.

So, while in this virally-induced cocoon, I’m wondering what ideas Anarchists you have for when we burst back out into the world. What projects, resources, spaces, etc. will be opened up by the new normal of this world, what will close? What will we do with our friends when we lose our jobs? Start income sharing? Set up Anarchist apprenticeship programs? Free Skools? Shoplifting clinics? How do we move on from here with those closest to us?

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i hope many will take this opportunity to assess avenues of furthering independence from the state and economy. find ever more ways to increase self sufficiency. for urban folks especially: what are you doing to lessen your dependence on "the system"? is it possible? thinking of leaving the city?

just curious...

My thoughts swing from, on the one hand, humans / humanity will learn nothing from this huge opportunity and the vast majority will claw frantically to get back to normal, to on the other hand, enough will take this opportunity to shift our behavior toward a livable planet for all beings.

What anarchists can do is finally realize most people are not anarchists. I know a certain troll on here is always talking about the insularity of anarchists, but it is true. We won't change anything without our non-anarchist neighbors. And I don't mean we have to turn them into anarchists, I mean the person down the street who knows how to repair plumbing or has a garden or whatever, we may want to learn how to coexist with them.

If our calls for rent strikes and such are to be successful we need more than just our @ crowd involved.

I don't think we can all just get along, but we may want to start to learn how to not get along without killing each other.

I mean, if I had a choice.

We’re already living in the utopia of non-anarchists, and they’re all getting and not getting along, with and without killing each other.

" Shoplifting clinics?"

but what is that? I'd say just increase shoplifting skills which is easy enough, get some cargo pants. Summer's around the corner you will look suspicious with a coat.

Yeah, i love the idea of being increasingly more and more self-sufficient. Unfortunately i think the emotional effect of this pandemic is that people will be more germaphobic and fearful, and a new pandemic is always around the corner. For the authorities to be freaking out of the spread of viruses is no new thing.

Part of my hope is that coronavirus was the creative nothing's response to increasingly more and more aggressive medical treatment, it's very selective, it's not bad enough to extinguish right off the bat and so maybe our species will get killed off by an evolved slew of micro-organisms that are resistant and elusive to medicine. Of course, there are better scenarios for us, but if our species is resistant to anarchy and change this may be one of the best outcomes...

Yes to increasing medical intervention.

They never tell you after antibiotics to put the good bacteria back in. It's utmost necessity.

Not to mention 66% of the standard American diet is made up of these three pro-inflammatory compounds:white flour, sugar, industrial seed oils.

At the same time as environmental toxicity. A lack of vitamin d3 in the northern hemisphere. Cramped living conditions, often with unsanitary aspects in close proximity (butchering not far from open swear/waste runoff). Horrid air pollution. Large segments of males who smoke on top of air pollution.

Covid19 thrives on pasta and noodles, explains the infection rates going exponential in Italy, China and South Korea. Not so much in South East Asia , Thailand India etc because they are more curry and rice based cuisine. Curry is comprised of red peppers chillies, cummin, coriander, turmeric and fenugreek. These are natural anti-viral herbs.

Boomer Remover

Yo! brothers and sisters,
I just celebrated with relatives and friends
my 74th Birthday. You too will enjoy life
as a Boomer.
Freedom is good at any age, believe me.
I have been active in our movement since the 60's.I try to build bridges with all manner of activists and "civilians" in all manner of settings.
Age is no excuse , nor is it a privilege.
Autonomy is for all of us; you and me.

fuck all this generational garbage talk, boomers, millennials, zoomers don't have any defining characteristics other than the year they were born

i am 65 with more than one comorbidity so in the higher risk group. but as healthy and strong as i can be by not being a part of the systems anymore than i can. or find useful or enjoyable.

i am not in the least afraid of this latest critter though i don't relish getting it. and no way am i going into the system for care if i do. i won't "sacrifice" my life for someone else as some grands are advocating. it just doesn't apply. i removed from myself from the medical system as much as i could over the years since all they could offer was vaguely understood science - i understood it more than some of them - and unacceptable drugs. the idea of entering one of those hotboxes of disease on the chance i might get saved (at what cost to my long-term well being) is not happening. talk about isolation. can you imagine dying with a tube crammed down your lungs? alone.

fuck that...i have lived a most fabulous life and i will continue to do so with only the bounds of my own choices based on my own best needs. which is based on the assumption, omg, that i am the one best suited to make that determination. and when i die it will be on my terms, in my time, in my way as much as possible.

and what a great time to be alive, to see the proof of how fallible these systems are, how convoluted and mismatched the various mandates, ideologies, and assumptions are. watching as the system managers try to figure out how to regain retain and remain in control of an orderly and temporary shutdown...with the help of orderly citizens.

i choose to spread the dissent, blast away at the blind trust, open the rusting rotting holes. take care of myself and mine, disconnecting still from the machinery. reconnecting with me and the wild world around me. one does not have to be take a knee jerk perspective to be in refusal, to be in rebellion. you don't have to be harming others either, since their choices are doing that quite efficiently.

but fuck anyway who wants to kill me sooner (go ahead and cough on me and see if i don't knock you up side the head with my walking stick) or tell me how to live.

fuck moralism, and anyone that tries to use it.

the idea of protecting the old and sick is fine and dandy, if that's your thing. even asking others in your world to take some precautions if you (or a loved one) are at risk, i have no problem with that. the state... well, it's the state. i would not do something because the state says to do it, i would do something because it makes sense to me in my context at the moment (and hopefully with some forethought to the next few moments), regardless of what the state says.

self-isolating or social distancing or whatever the fucking buzzwords are today, is a choice, an individual choice as ALL choices should be. if you share your life with others, maybe they have some influence in your choice as well. likewise, i would hope that individual choices are made with consideration for (at least the) obvious consequences. you come trying to spread shit to me against my will, you are imposing on my autonomy, and you will catch some lead. that ain't about nothing other than me and you.

one's age indicates their "value" ONLY when economics is the sole perspective. many old folks would probably be better off dead. so would many young folks. but who the fuck am i - or you - to choose? anyone making that decision for anyone else better be ready for real consequences. statesheep will of course follow the mandated game plan, i am talking of more free-thinking types. i do what i do for myself (and those i care about), not for some "greater good" of society, and definitely not for some kind of reactionary "street cred".

definitely interesting times.

In this respect our townsfolk were like everybody else, wrapped up in themselves; in other words they were humanists: they didn't believe in plagues. A plague isn't a thing made to man's measure; therefore we tell ourselves that plague is a mere spook of the mind, a bad dream that will pass away. But it doesn't always pass away and, from one bad dream to another, it is men who pass away, and the humanists first of all, because they haven't taken their precautions. Our townsfolk were not more to blame than others; they forgot to be modest, that was all, and thought that everything still was possible for them; which presupposed that plagues were impossible. They went on conducting business, planning trips, and formed views. How should they have given a thought to anything like plague, which rules out any future, cancels trips, silences the exchange of views. They fancied themselves free, and no one will ever be free so long as there are plagues"

-- Albert Camus, ''The Plague"

I predict the return of "speak easies" -- secret, invite-only underground parties and clubs held in defiance of society's command to self-isolate.

We'll rave in the woods. We'll rave in the industrial warehouses. Our people will take up leases in buildings and repurpose them into social gathering spots.

They won't stop us.

This text feels so much desensitized I ain't sure it's worthy a direct answer.

Right now there's roughly 1,3 billion people who're into isolation worldwide, and that in some cases is enforced with heavy charges.

I don't wanna look for what's at the end of this police state as there's NO FUCKING END IN SIGHT at the moment. Tomorrow or next week your government may just decide they'll force you into your house and put checkpoints at every major intersection, if it's not already the case.

I don't wanna see more of that pipedreaming about After the Collapse, post-capitalism or even the Return to Normal. I wanna see what's the present and future of freedom, for the next few weeks at least.

Also, some of us don't have a precious gang of friends with whom to collectivize everything and bring on rev inside their state-imposed isolation. Some, due to personal issues or mental illnesses, are just faced with a screen and hopefully a few books, and maybe some occasional chatter with strangers when there's no snitches around watching you potentially spread the virus.

The author of this TOTW should sit down for a moment, clear their mind and think of the current context. Where they, and over a billion other people, have been steered into this, in a matter of two weeks. And this might be just the beginning. So how can you be already think of an ending?

Do you really have an idea of what's going on in the first place? Any insight you could share?

maybe, just maybe, this will demonstrate just why cities are not really the ultimate experiment in human freedom.
some of us reached that conclusion long ago. and i don't mean due to intelligence, seeing the future or superior lifeways. simple desires.

i feel a lot of your frustration with this website and with people who call themselves anarchists who seem to just try and close the door on anything that might contaminate their business as usual and their left-ish prejudices.

It might be that this virus is the biggest crisis that global capitalism has had to deal with in a long time, and we should learn from it and find new ways to get together in real life. Unfortunately for me the place where i live was despised long before COVID-19 and the people are often kinda stupid and anti-social, so any process of "re-building" for me beyond my house and my already very small group of friends is already extremely difficult...but re-build we must do if we want to escape authoritarian traps.

I guess I know what it's like. Not having friends ain't much easier... I've bee advising anarchos here for quite a long time to come up with open projects that allow different people to come together and hopefully also live together. That doesn't look easy but sometimes it can be easier than you think. A camper's commune somewhere that's advertised through select channels? A land project on your farm? Soap-making workshops? Couchsurfing for anarcho-travellers? Food distribution in the hood? I guess there's a lot more that can be done. Often it's easier to start this stuff from a group of friends, too.

thanks for the understanding.

"but re-build we must do if we want to escape authoritarian traps."

rebuild what? and why?

Many people’s routines were already indistinguishable from quarantine. These lifestyles were adopted out of convenience, economy, or ways to make do or compensate for various lackings. If before they defaulted to staying inside, now they have “no choice”.

In both scenarios they have a choice, but during the first the illusion is that this was the better choice, possibly a good enough decision (though pressures to adopt that lifestyle might have been greater than any volition put behind a decision making process which criteria was already moulded by such pressures), and during the quarantine scenario the framing is that of an impositions, giving an illusion of no choice or helplessness. Both are adaptations to confluences of pressures from modern life, civilization etc. Adaptations are not always innovations, nor proactive, nor conscious and deliberate creative choices.

i look forward to your totw suggestion for next week. i'm sure it's in the mail, right?

Next week’s topic: Death of friends and futures and how to die along with them

but if you prefer you could choose a less cheerful topic

i'm not really sure what makes a TOTW superior to a comment. I don't think that the solution to all the worlds problems lies in "a greater sensitivity", but the great thing about this website is that the rageful negativity and misery of the people who post on here often does not get deleted.

Hi my thing is - - self-learning and volunteer work for each other in Europe. I also will work for peace via internet (for free / 0 / pay myself) and if you like you can stay here for free 5 days in Europe.
It's not perfect but use the 'Find as you feel' method or 'Learn as you want to live' way on the site - or even better talk to someone who has time (and logic / less offended mentality).
RELATIVE READING will get us all to the same place. Death, with and without education and self-learning / volunteer work for each other.
Choose life, choose anything. Just keep choosing! I'm here, listening to anyone who wants to email palm at

This opportunity to go inside, to slow down, to exit from the bustle of the commonplace, the every day, why are you wasting it?

A boundary has been violated, a being is telling us "No", listen. The hubris of anarchists who still cling to a capitalist logic that says "I can go where I want, when I want, I don't have to honor another's boundaries", do you think no rules apply to you?

I tend to assume that anarchists are free thinkers, but this knee-jerk anti-authoritarianism looks to me like ideology not thinking. If the governor told you not to drink bleach would you do it anyway just to prove your disdain for authority? That's how shortsighted y'all look from here.

To not question how the authorities are responding, and chinese medical staff shoving people into vans after having their temperature read by inaccurate thermometers is nothing anarchists should be worried about.

Thanks for your high minded advice, I hope you can eat without grocery stores, because most people where I live can't do that...

is there something you think we can/should be doing for the underprivileged, whether that includes you or not? do you have ideas? do you think we should just be raging out of control? now is surely a time when that is comparatively easy, so why are you online?

To take seriously, read your comments again. You're using a shitty and confusing time for everyone to get on here and start telling people what to do and judge them without a shred of compassion.

you're jumping to conclusions that are incorrect. and where do you get "without a shred of compassion"? or "telling people what to do" out of what nettle said? wtf?

"The hubris of anarchists who still cling to a capitalist logic that says "I can go where I want, when I want, I don't have to honor another's boundaries", do you think no rules apply to you?"

First of all, let people set their own boundaries, talk with the people around you to access their level of fear over the virus. Be considerate of people who don't want to get all touchy or have immune deficiencies, and let them enjoy themselves for the most part. Consider whether being afraid of getting it is practical, moralizing, an an attempt to control things that are uncontrollable. I'm personally shaken up by all the people i've been hearing insisting on everyone locking themselves in their house. Am I supposed to start eating my poop, am i supposed to stop all of my self-sustaining and "community" (for lack of a better term) sustaining social interactions? Do i really even need to amp up my already existing hygeinic procedures?

Second of all, i don't always do my due diligence of checking the names of the people who post on here, this is in part my problem, and a problem i pointed out long ago in insisting on total access to anonymity all the time to "protect people" from having to give [not even necessarily true or meaningful] information to this website.

Third of all: if anarchists want to go out, then stop trying to use guilt to keep them from doing so. It's pretty clear that the virus is here in the US to stay, it could be very catastrophic for the medical system and everyone including me, but it probably won't since there's been so much insistence on "flattening the curve" (i.e., letting the coronavirus infect people over a longer period of time). I'm still about as isolated as this was before this happened, trying to change my habits in accordance with changing lifestyles and times.

So can we all please go on trying to enjoy ourselves as much as possible before we die?! Or am I going to need to kill myself so that the current statist/capitalist system can continue without any further issues?

I'm not sure how you read what I wrote as something other than a plea for others to set their own boundaries.

The difference for me is "others" includes the virus. The logic of capitalism has pushed people into places not meant for us, but meant for the wee beasties and the wild other (which isn't altogether other, but that's a different story).

I was not meaning only the boundaries of other humans.

it def did not come off as you advocating that we all can set our own boundaries. it def sound like you thought we should find pleasure in the boundaries being set. and the virus is not setting any.

animals move around, they determine their boundaries based on a uncountable and indescribable factors unique to them and their imminent environment, needs, etc. technology - capitalist and communist and nationalist and fascist driven - has made it not only possible to pack tons of humans in a small space, but to open up as you say, areas that would otherwise be impossible to live in. not only maximum quantities, but maximum longevity.

this crisis is an emotional crisis. it is the amplification of the essential conflict between the logical and rational systems and the occasionally rational, but mostly emotionally-driven, rule-following, unquestioning humans it controls and is controlled by. the emotional side wants to save people from dying, the rational side wants to keep the machinery running. it is no coincidence that much of the ruling elite (in every system and subsystem) are in the higher risk category for these sorts of diseases and this one is super charged, in their minds. my bet is on the machinery, with the elite making sure they are well-protected and well-cared for.

so do you stay at home because you were told to? because it is a good idea? to "do your part"? because you like to and want to avoid the viral chaos? as part of a general strike?

it matters why you choose to do or not do a thing. free your mind and your ass will follow is sound advice for any age.

and it matters when anarchists advocate a particular mindset to adopt. you aren't there, but you are leaning into it.

I do not think anyone should follow authority without question. Of course not.

There is a bit of a difference, though, between following blindly and doing what seems prudent to the times. Sometimes, actions that look like following orders are actually actions that will save your life or the lives of your friends.

What I was getting at is this: use your critical thinking skills. Neither follow nor do the opposite just because of who said the thing.

Are we against binaries or not?

when i already breath automatically.

Now is a time to start thinking about how to be better considerate of other people around you: one of the important things to note is that you can't just expect everyone to be calm all the time, that's much more of a part of standard procedure than edgy kids going out and coughing on the elderly to defy the norm. That kind of dumb middle school bullshit honestly pisses me off just as much as states throwing people in vans in order to isolate the sick. The only problem is that states who think they have a monopoly on "the greater good" can have a much greater impact on other people than insecure children.

you cna't read very well. breathing automatically is not the same thing as slowing down and thinking about what other people are saying and what you're actually responding to. you being in a tizzy isn't going to solve anyone's problems, leas tof all your own.

"That kind of dumb middle school bullshit honestly pisses me off just as much as states throwing people in vans in order to isolate the sick. The only problem is that states who think they have a monopoly on "the greater good" can have a much greater impact on other people than insecure children."

having my autonomy/agency castrated is something i will fight against, regardless of whether it is being done by the state or another individual. of course, another individual is much easier to fight (or retaliate) against than the state.

anarchy means doing the opposite of what the govt says. like rebelling and stuff. we should all congregate in one place.

If the govt told me not to jump into a volcano, you bet id come on here and argue for jumping in a volcano.

Hey, government guys are saying don't get raped by bison buffalo. Nuanced?

Government sez you to not go chill on that nice tropical island because there's at the center an active volcano which, according to Experts, might erupt at any time. To me, to be insisting on going there translates as a celebration of the life still going on there, at the expense of maybe dying a horrible death (which here means burning to a crisp instead of chocking out of pneumonia).

Just about the same as "anarchists" for whom a squat under threat of eviction is a no-go. Yeah, apparently North America has produced this kind of anarchists.

All animals living in the wild are anarchists btw, but also take precautions when needed. But accepting confinenement before it becomes enforced by the State is not precaution. As another here said, it is *subjugation*.

"All animals living in the wild are anarchists btw, but also take precautions when needed. But accepting confinenement before it becomes enforced by the State is not precaution. As another here said, it is *subjugation*."

'round here, we call that being a good little domesticated virus-cuck.

> But accepting confinenement before it becomes enforced by the State is not precaution. As another here said, it is *subjugation*

Who's confined? I live in a green space with my friends. We're having a great time. Sounds like you confined yourself to a lonely existence long before c19.

"But accepting confinenement before it becomes enforced by the State is not precaution. As another here said, it is *subjugation*."

"accepting confinement" vs exercising your autonomy by making your own choice to keep yourself away from infected people so as to remain as healthy as can be for whatever might come next in your life

see how that works? it's called "perspective". and their ain't just one.

"There is a bit of a difference, though, between following blindly and doing what seems prudent to the times."

i would rephrase that to "... what seems prudent to my context in the moment." then i might agree.

But wait... are motels getting closed too?

the bay area anarchist bookfair has, of course, been postponed to an as yet undetermined date. figured that info could go here as well as anywhere.
playing without bookfairs!

it could happen.

since most people with books and zines to sell are connected to the net, it would be pretty easy to put together an online bookfair with multiple entry points and methods of participating. there are plenty of techie types who could pull this off.

yeah like an ABF within the walls of the new Prison Society. Lemme know when you publish an essay on how full-scale libertarian communism will free us from the cells but not really.

the sudden euphemistic shift from social distancing to physical distancing in social media and the news? Its like they think they'll somehow manage to trick us into dis-acknowledging the profound alienation of the New Normal if they just switch some words around.

this whole emerging culture of "socially distant" everything makes me sick. Today I had suicidal thoughts for the first time in my life.

Here are some videos I've found to be helpful or entertaining during the COVID-19 spread/scare/outbreak:

this one here is mostly about the chinese response to the virus, kinda unpleasant to watch, but has that horror movie vibe which i enjoy.

this one is an attempt to explain "what we do and don't know", kinda boring and painful to watch, but is a great explanation of why people in the medical field are terrified of this virus, they just don't know how to deal with it.

Get yur guns!

I'm going to make a movie about all this called, Once Upon a Time in 'Murica.

There already is a film by that name, and it's an excellent epic by Sergio Leone (whom Tarantino cribs music (ennio morricone) and story from).

Unlike a lot of gangster films, it is a raw and unsympathetic look at the lifestyle, and has many comments on American culture as well. It is both patient as well as not for the faint of heart.

But it technically wasn't called Once Upon a Time in 'Murica, not with that spelling anyway.

I will try to clear it with Sergio Leone's estate.

Yuz sik cappos gonna DIE yuz sukt evthing outa da erth ya gonna DIE yuz bloated an payl rollin in fat ritch juz DIE Die die

One thing that I've noticed is the stress on social distancing but not economic distancing. Sure, keep going to work, keep consuming, keep the economy going. all of which involves lots of contact with a myriad of people. But for god's sake don't physically interact with loved ones!!!

long live the nihilism of spring breakers!

Clearwater Beach, FLA has become Darwin's waiting room.

I'm going to make a movie about that too.

Come an say hello ta my little covid-19, *ratta tatta hacking cough machine gun staccato*

It will hardly impact underdeveloped Africa, everyone dies before they get to fifty, its a young persons nation. HAhahaaaaHAAAHAhadfahahaaa DIE OLD CORRUPT OCTOGENARIANS, YOU ARE TAKING UP SPACE AND OXYGEN MWHAAaaHhaAahhhaHHARArhHhhAaa

You need to think about the economics of how hospitals are ran. It's not economic for a private institution to create excess ICU beds and have them largely remain empty. That's why there are few, with the expectation and reality that some will be occupied at all times.

I think you could make a case that it's nearsighted to think that capacity couldn't suddenly and unexpectedly (though if you are anti-civ or pessimistic about civilizations you've probably seen this coming for years), and it is. How easily it all could be overwhelmed.

And there are other people, not sick from the virus that would get swept up in the whole thing being overwhelmed. People with lots of other conditions and needs, and abilities. Take them into consideration.

What could happen if those on the front lines get overwhelmed, and contract the virus?

These are all what are meant.

A conversation about what needs to change about our values and what we prioritize (Western medicine is not preventative, and there is environmental toxicity written off as 'externalities') would be interesting. Does so much finding have to go into military? Even capitalism could have easily prevented this. Take into consideration that rich assholes like Bill Gates having been warning about these things, and it was completely ignored. That's one of the richest men in the world and the reach of his influence on this topic. If that's not a sign of how much institutions are crumbling...

*how capacity couldnt suddenly and unexpectedly be overwhelmed.

Combined that into two clunky sentences.

That a plague should improve the overall quality of our air... only to suffocate us to death.

i am not staying in to save society, but to try to not get my friends and family sick. I also see staying home as a way to tank the economy. I am listening to the virus which is telling me my way of life is untenable. Corona is telling me a life predicated on the death of the other beings around me is prison from the start.
I also have a heart and if there were a way to exit global capitalism without a whole lot of people dying, actually, of course that is not it. Capitalism by its normal functioning kills a whole lot of people. Whether it ends or it continues people die, but if it continues all will die, except maybe the cockroaches and viruses. So be it. As it ever was.

Great Depression 2020

Welcome to the rest of our lives

gang outside, gang outside, dont go out the house, cuz the gangs outside...

And Tony Scarface says :-- Say hello to my little friendly virus, Ratta tat tat *hacking cough * ratta tat staccato phlegm spraying ricochet tatta tat tat. *falls out of balcony*

Industrial capitalism is enormously destructive. Unfortunately, it consumes 1) our lives. 90%+ of people spend the majority of their waking hours doing things they would rather not do. Obviously, some unpleasant work is necessary: garbage collectors, fireman, policemen however, David Graeber wrote a book called "Bullshit Jobs" which argues that many jobs serve no vital purpose whatever, 2) the environment. Many lower middle class and even poor people have closets filled with shoes, and rooms filled with games, clothes, movies, and electronics while the rich have higher quality variations of these. If anything, poor, middle class, and rich people need more a) paid vacation, b) paid sick leave, c) the ability to engage in new experiences: see a new city, visit an art museum, try a new activity such as salsa dancing. However, capitalism devours the majority of our waking hours so that we may strive for nicer cars, clothes, and homes which is not inherently evil however, quite purposeless in the grand scheme of things when compared to the increase in the quality of our lives that can be achieved by spending the majority of our waking moments more purposefully. In addition, for minimalists, work and careers have dimishing returns. For instance, one study found that a joint income of $70,000 per year for a couple meant that a family could reliably obtain a) housing, b) transportation, c) education, d) nutrition, e) recreation, and f) travel. Those households who earned more than $70,000, say even $300,000 were somewhat happier than those who made 70k but the increases in happiness achieved from quadrupling income were statistically insignificant.

There is no definitive measurement of happiness. There are some villager folks living in grass huts inAfrica and have never travelled beyond the local water source who have smiles on their faces 6 times more than Westerners. Just saying, life is what you make it and money can't buy it.

today I was unsuccessful in helping my partner acquire their workers permit, and the state has that border sealed tight with no end in sight... fuckin sons of bitches...

to those of you out there who're lucky enough to have your SOs at your side during this difficult time; you are blessed... Hold them tight.

Sorry for you and your partner.

This pandemic scare is sabotaging so many lives at the moment... In less than two weeks society turned against itself. All for a stupid viral pneumonia that was like completely allowed to spread, and the means to defend against it were mostly taken away from us.

I'd like to see Bill Gates, who now is grabbing the opportunity to play Antichrist with his stunning proposal for a national tracking system, suffer the same consequences, and too bad there hasn't been any insurrecto anarchism in the US that stands enough on its legs for this... but who knows what new shit might unfold at some point?

new shit is an oxymoron
shit’s recurrent, same ol shit
fresh shit is more appropriate

"All for a stupid viral pneumonia that was like completely allowed to spread"

What do you mean by this? I'm so fucking livid right now. Who can we hold responsible for this?! I just don't fucking get it. China announced they had a problem back in January so what the fuck took everybody so long to close trade and travel to their country until the situation was back in hand? Everything is so fucked up right now, fuck...

Put frankly, I cannot be sure there's any plot behind this. That "it was allowed to spread" can only mean mismanagement resulting in a delayed response.

Like in the Canadian province where I am, government imposed restrictions on the int'l airports whikle the fucking Fed still didn't do a shit about the airports, tho it's pretty obvious that if they really wanted to cut up thr virus' chances of spreading, they would have put these controls on int'l airports weeks earlier than mid-march. Keeping in mind the masses of Chinese ppl coming back from from the Lunar New Year vacations. But if "conspiracy", then there're some managers who *precisely* had that in mind.

Also I talked to a few medics and volunteers at a testing clinic, and they're not very well protected to face anyone with obvious symptoms of the virus. They're also seeing 1000-2000 potential infected everyday. Wearing common medical face masks is giving them the illusion of working in a safe environment, but the masks that offer real protection are surprisingly rare. Just three months back you could order/find a box of 10 for like 30 bucks on the internet and most hardware stores. There are rumors circulating on social media of chinese people mass-buying them back in January... Even if true this doesn't have to meat nefarious purposes (Chinese people tend to have big families, with some members living in China).

So my worst-case reading of the current events goes like:

- Most authorities don't care about protecting from the virus as much as they pretend...

- The whole drama was to cause a partial or incremental systemic shutdown, that could now last for up to 18 month

- Shutdown would serve as a way to introduce a "social reboot", according to strict conditions imposed to the masses, down to individual control. Not sure hwo this would work but the current emergency situation is enough to suspend due process and democratic political process. As example, the Canadian Liberal government just got the mandate to budget anything they want up to 82 billion. This means fast-tracking and implementing security measures beyond oversight, theoretically. This is almost a war powers mandate.

As for Bill Gates' proposed plan, " ID2020" look it up. This is some crazy-ass spooky shit, and not sure it's going to pass.

Don't politicize something that came out of Nature. There are no plots, no new order, its just a bunch of consuming morons and the people they let run their lives for them who are all going hysterical and neurotic on a masse hypocondrimaniacal obsession. Just let them go, let them all fret and panic and just move on through it all because it hasn't really effected any real anarch, who has seperated themselves from getting influenced and swayed by any State authority we would expect. your much dreamed of retribution of Gaia for all the bad moronic deeds of mankind.

One way or another this virus has spread to your area due to politics, bad politics especially. But okay, feel free to deny all this as just fake media crap. Of course nothing shall ever attain your Ascended DASEIN Consiousness... har har

But sure... You can be some respectable model of egoist like that crazy (and of course loud-talking) lunatic junkie I saw in the streets downtown, today, who was yelling incoherent stuff at people while attempting to shake their hands. Downtown areas sure are becoming interesting atm, for some unexpected scenes. I suggest everybody hangs out there more often.

Real Anarch this, Real Nihilist that ad nauseam. It's tiresome, a joke that was maybe funny a couple times, and doesn't say much usually. I'm not inclined to believe you and your realness. every thread.

I call myself VirusoNihilist now, as you said, the "real" was getting tedious.
However, I am sticking to my suggestion, and I choose that word carefully, that this whole hiccup reaction to this covid-19 event is not some plot, what is there to plot about, the capitalists have control, what is occuring now is just digitally enhanced economic rationalism, they don't want their workforce damaged to the point of commerce reversals and depression. This is not a drill for WWIII, They don't want their obediant puppets snarling and riotous, they nurture their already established dominance.
Now frolic, I order you to frolic in the park, for your own good, and celebrate that 80% of the commerce driven workforce are sitting at home, in a room, for the first time not distracted from the big question, --What am I, why am I here?

Take a deep freakin breath and calm down mmkay? Then you will frolick around and enjoy.

initial knowledge of the outbreak, they threatened medical professionals talking about it, then i theorize a lot of the panic happened because china realized they fucked up and sounded the alarm to other countries.

My opinion, it is just a humble opinion, is that the nasty conditions created by chinese cities with their billions of people and un-sanitary meat preparation lead to the virus. Whether it came "out of nature" or not is a worthless argument, everything came out of nature, as i have said before, yet there is a meaningful distinction between anthropocentric worlds and non-anthropocentric worlds, in this sense it was probably a by product, or a NATURAL PUNISHMENT, for the crap that humans do.

Aside from periodically inducing agricultural crises and producing the apocalyptic conditions that helped capitalism surge beyond its early borders, such plagues have also haunted the proletariat in the industrial core itself. Before returning to the many more recent examples, it’s worth noting again that there is simply nothing uniquely Chinese about the coronavirus outbreak. The explanations for why so many epidemics seem to arise in China is not cultural, it’s a matter of economic geography. This is abundantly clear if we compare China to the US or Europe when the latter were hubs of global production and mass industrial employment.[vi] And the result is essentially identical, with all the same features. Livestock die-offs in the countryside were met in the city by poor sanitary practices and widespread contamination. This became the focus of early liberal-progressive efforts at reform in working class areas, epitomized by the reception of Upton Sinclair’s novel The Jungle, originally written to document the suffering of immigrant workers in the meat-packing industry, but taken up by wealthier liberals concerned about health violations and the generally unsanitary conditions in which their own food was prepared.

This liberal outrage at “uncleanliness,” with all its implied racism, still defines what we might think of as the automatic ideology of most people when confronted with the political dimensions of something like the coronavirus or SARS epidemics. But workers have little control over the conditions in which they work. More importantly, while unsanitary conditions do leak out of the factory through contamination of food supplies, this contamination is really just the tip of the iceberg. Such conditions are the ambient norm for those working in them or living in nearby proletarian settlements, and these conditions induce population-level declines in health that provide even better conditions for the spread of capitalism’s many plagues.


The above quote is great and really illuminates the Chinese situation. What various people don't want to consider however is that viral disease and plagues are driven by environmental toxic/stress epigenetic factors. Non-human animal domestic captivity is basically a toxic stress breeding ground for historical colds and flus. I very much suspect that viral strains are not connected to stronger weaker viruses but greater degrees of toxicity and stress which is pretty significant in China where you have less non-human welfare practices.

Once again there are no viruses only vesicles and vesicles are perturbed endogenous manifestations of biological stress. Until the civilized realize that this is all connected to the production and domestic captive practices of civilization and the toxic/stress epigenetic manifestations of it all then you will never solve the core issue. Vaccines will always be a band-aid solution until the underlying toxicity and stresses of production are dealt with.

Once again there is no virus only runaway toxic/stress vesicles.

exist, but not viruses? My criteria for existence does not just come from something i've seen with my own eyes, but more or less a holistic analysis of everything i think i know about something...and no the conspiracy theory concerning the virus has not been totally ruled out, even though i think there are equally as likely explanations for this virus...

Viruses continue to have an inferred existence with no Kochian isolated purity to back it up. If you are up to date on virology you know that they pretty much admit that they are inseparable from vesicles and have an evolutionary connected relationship via vesicle function hijacking(trojan hypothesis) or some other type of functional connection.

My view is that viruses were germ theory dogma based constructions from the beginning and that a stress activation hypothesis via toxicity of different types makes more sense(it made sense for TMV via chemically poisoned plants and it makes sense for the rest). Contagion I am not quarreling with though I argue it happens via stress communicating dynamics and not propagating pathogens(which as Jamie Cunliffe says is a silly term considering that pathology by definition happens after the fact).

viruses exist:

"...and have an evolutionary connected relationship via vesicle function hijacking(trojan hypothesis) or some other type of functional connection."

in a very strict empirical sense, neither one of these things exist, they are only word of mouth. I have never seen nor had any sort of interaction with a "vesicle", "virus", "bacteria", "mico-organism".

and i seriously don't give a flying fuck about how up to date with germ theory i am, i tried to find one of the research papers you made references to over the past few weeks but you gave such vague information as to what search words i can use.

I wrote that this is the developing consensus among virologists who have been forced to admit that there is an inseparable relationship with vesicles. My counter hypothesis is that vesicles are the only existent and the disease pathologies that you see are different vesicle formations(RNA/DNA ect) that correspond with different toxicological stress factors.

The stress/toxicological hypothesis is different from the viral species hypothesis. Vesicles have very much been demonstrated to exist as an endogenous function.

There isn't going to be a paper that admits my view, you have to look at the metadata of various science papers that have been published and connect the dots. That's what the Perth Group did in their latest writing and the papers they linked to in regards to HIV.

Yep, its a well established fact that messenger-RNA react to toxic-stress environments and mutate to form the cellular structure of viriuses. So are you saying the majority of layman society have not been informed of this fact and have been misled to believe viruses are a distinct and independent microbial life form?

It's definitely more factual but the dominant view is still that there are these evolutionary exogenous entities called viruses. It's not that people are being misled or that there's a hoax going on. They BELIEVE this stuff as it logically follows from the structure of germ theory. It needs propagating disease agents to survive as a viable theory. My counter theory could be called a unified stress theory of disease which connects biological stress to acute disease activation and contagion.

I see what you mean, as an analogy, the Ancients considered disease and death were caused by evil spirits and witches before anatomic knowledge and the microscope arrived to identify organic pathogens, microorgs etc Its taking the next level of cellular ultra-microscopic empirical data to nail it. That may be the next major breakthrough.

That's what evil spirits or miasma amount to. There is some truth to the old miasma idea if you reconceptualize as environmental toxicity though germs still play a role as direct vectors of disease. I really wouldn't use the term pathogens as it's a nonsensical term if you really think about it(a pathology can only be AFTER the fact). The better term would be pathogenic microorganisms which are the case after the fact due to their toxicological make up.

Germ Theory in its classical form is basically undone by the reality of microbiomes and the fact that there is commensalist and even mutually beneficial germs. What Pasteur Koch and the subsequent followers were not aware of was the reality of biological stress as discovered by Hans Selye. If you elaborate on his ideas of stress you can take it towards stress based explanations of germ contact disease activation and contagion.

Not quite true, the germ warfare conspiracy infers that covid-19 came out of a laboratory, which is not natural.
But yes, yes, and maybe.

How do I become a real anarchist and nihilist?

Just making the box is simple enough; at the outside it takes less than an hour.
However, it requires considerable courage to put the box on, over your head, and get to
be a box man. Anyway, as soon as anyone gets into this simple, unprepossessing paper
cubicle and goes out into the streets, he turns into an apparition that is neither man
nor box. A box man possesses some offensive poison about him. I suppose there’s
some degree of poison even in a picture of the snake lady on a billboard or the bear
man in a circus side show, but even so that can be canceled out by the admission fee.
But the poison of a box man is not so simple.

I read it awhile ago. Almost all of Kobo Abe books are uniquely weird. I haven't read all of them, but the ones I have are uniquely odd. He's like an avant-garde/experimental novelist.

I'm bit of a hermit and don't enjoy going out and doing stuff with a bunch of people. So this "quarantine" doesn't have much of an effect on my life. I hope that doesn't hurt my chances at be a real anarch and nihilist. Do you think it will?

Whether your a real anarch nihilist or not is just a scribbling on the inside of the box, on the outside you’ll remain an unexplainable apparition, and there is not a reliable narrator to provide any certainty.

Interesting how such a book came to be in 1974 from Japan, later to be known for otaku, hikikomori, neet, and youth wearing medical masks as fashion.

I'm sorry, you must've read a different book than I did. The Box Man wasn't an influence for any of those autist lifestyles or interests you mention, minus wearing masks. From "The Ark Sakura" book, you could extrapolate it was an influence for the Hikikomori autists, but from The Box Man, naw. The Japanese wearing masks isn't much of a fashion statement

The important thing about TBM is that it shouldn't be considered aesthetically or politically, its just a nihilist/existentialist dude living in the modern Western materialist society.
As a metaphor describing an individuals solipsistic journey navigating the complexities of cultural conditioning and borrowing alot from Kafka's Metamorphosis but in a novel out there inside a box variation, its a fun read.

this part sounds like my life:

"And because of this, the box man is condemned to travel in a perpetual fugue state: “Paralysis of the heart's sense of direction is the box man's chronic complaint.”

to be honest man, this whole pandemic just got me really fucking sad.

"first there was the collapse of civilization... anarchy.. genocide.. starvation.. And then, just when we thought things couldn't get any worse -- we got the plague, the living death, quickly closing its fist over the entire planet... But then, we heard the rumors! That the last scientists were working on a cure, to end the plague and restore the world...

Restore it?

WHYY ?!!

I love the death... I love the misery... I LOVE THIS WOOOOOOOOORRRLLLLDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!"

-- Cyborg

XR, after realizing their lame global activist campaigns weren't really efrective, went full sociopathic Plan B, and released their secret superweapon against civilization.

O the creative nothing
O science
O gaia
O who cares
O society!

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is the way that even the most totalitarian solutions are still completely dependent on untold millions of "essential workers" being out and about to preserve a non negotiable economy. The media and government pounds on down a program of social distance and lashes shame and threats at those who don't comply as though everyone has that luxury, as though that's actually what they want. I don't know how bad it's gonna be but THEY sure seem to think it's gonna be monstrous and the unspoken message actually seems to be that while the lumens and proles are fucked, at least we can do OUR part to not die in this. The pre-emptive survivors guilt of the privileged turned into some high minded philosophy about what we owe one another that all are forced to listen to. The left talks back with more of the same plus some I told you so's about capitalism and hopes for a revolution that can come delivered to their door so they don't have to step outside. If this continues I see class division turning into the laziest kind of socially aware sci fi with the poor playing invisible, sacrifices and scapegoats all at once. Within that reality... What the fuck do we do?

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