From NPR By Julian Hayda
How anarchist politics are factoring in Ukraine's fight against Russia.
AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
What's that expression - war makes strange bedfellows? Well, that's on display in Ukraine, where a growing number of Ukrainians are embracing a tradition of anarchism that goes way back there. But they're doing so in support of their government and institutions like NATO, all in an effort to defeat Russia. NPR's Julian Hayda reports from Ukraine.
JULIAN HAYDA, BYLINE: If you wade deeply enough into any city's culture, you'll be sure to find hubs of counterculture. You know the types. Call them punks, hippies, beatniks, whatever - they espouse a deep distrust of institutions and tend to be against whatever the mainstream is for.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTIST: (Singing in non-English language).
HAYDA: This pub in central Dnipro was built for people like that. But instead of being any old punk bar, this one is dedicated to a local countercultural hero.
YAROSLAV KYRYLOV: Nestor Ivanovych Makhno.
HAYDA: Nestor Makhno, a Ukrainian revolutionary leader who, a century ago, claimed thousands of square miles of southeastern Ukraine to create an anarchist utopia. The free territory, as it was called, was based here in Dnipro in the wake of a collapsing Russian empire and the rise of the Soviet Union.
KYRYLOV: (Through interpreter) As an anarchist, he opposed all state power.
HAYDA: I ask the 20-year-old pub manager, Yaroslav Kyrylov, to tell me a little bit about this venue's namesake.
KYRYLOV: (Through interpreter) He believed in the equality of all people and that all needs can be met through mutual aid.
HAYDA: Not every patron of Makhno Pub is an anarchist, but Maks Shvechkoii, who I find puffing on an unfiltered cigarette on the patio, is.
MAKS SHVECHKOII: (Through interpreter) Anarchists don't just accept anybody as their leader. But during times like this, we do what we have to do.
HAYDA: Times like this - wartime. You might actually think that anarchists are always against the state. But in Ukraine, once an epicenter of anarchism...
SHVECHKOII: (Through interpreter) We rally together for victory.
HAYDA: Sometimes that means signing up to the Ukrainian armed forces, swearing allegiance to a military commander and still looking up to Nestor Makhno.
SALAM: (Non-English language spoken).
HAYDA: I reach Salam fighting on the outskirts of Bakhmut. That's not his real name, by the way. He adopted it as a call sign when fighting against the Russian-backed regime in his native Belarus.
SALAM: (Non-English language spoken).
HAYDA: He says Russia poses a far more clear and present danger to the world than any other power. As a self-styled antifascist, he sees it as his duty to fight on the side of Ukraine. But for an anarchist who rejects statehood, he agrees it might look a little odd that he's defending the state of Ukraine.
SALAM: (Through interpreter) I may hate NATO with my whole heart, but if it weren't for their weapons, we'd all simply be dead.
HAYDA: He tells me there are quite a few anarchists in his unit and that they all get along with people with other views. It helps, he says, to have a common enemy in Russia. I ask, why don't many of his American comrades of the anarchist-Antifa variety look at geopolitics in the same way?
SALAM: (Through interpreter) They live in countries where there is relative peace. Sure, there are plenty of social problems. That's undeniable. But they've never had to worry about a violent neighbor, hundreds of times more powerful, rolling tanks in to disrupt any attempts at liberty.
DENYS PILASH: You need to retain your critical point towards any kind of imperialism and expansionism.
HAYDA: Denys Pilash is an activist and magazine editor in Kyiv who sees himself as somewhat of a Ukrainian ambassador to the global left. He has spent a lot of time appealing to antiauthoritarians around the world to help Ukraine, especially holdouts in the global south.
PILASH: We aren't the only people who are suffering from war. And, yes, we need to remember about what's happening in Tigray, in Ethiopia or in Yemen or in Myanmar.
HAYDA: Pilash says that, like Nestor Makhno argued a century earlier, the only way to a sustainable peace is to enlist the support of others who have also resisted the world's big powers, whatever those powers' political stripes may be. The lesson for him, like other anarchists in Ukraine, is that the reality of war means political compromise.
Julian Hayda, NPR News, Dnipro.
Comments
Discouraging, but the real
anon (not verified) Sun, 06/11/2023 - 17:56
Discouraging, but the real Nestor Makhno can't be blamed for this. He fought against the Ukrainian state.
Makhno fought Russian
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 05:39
In reply to Discouraging, but the real by anon (not verified)
Makhno fought Russian imperialists, too.
Weird phrasing, "in support
anon (not verified) Mon, 06/12/2023 - 03:39
Weird phrasing, "in support of the war"... yeah, or in defence against Russian imperialism.
So it’s not war because
anon (not verified) Mon, 06/12/2023 - 12:58
In reply to Weird phrasing, "in support by anon (not verified)
So it’s not war because Russia can be called imperialist? What is your point?
I don't know how it could
Anarchist (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 08:15
In reply to So it’s not war because by anon (not verified)
I don't know how it could possible be misunderstood. Ukrainians don't want war, so they don't support it, they want Russia to stop the invasion.
So objectively , materially
anon (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 09:40
In reply to I don't know how it could by Anarchist (not verified)
So objectively , materially involving themselves in the war means (?) because you say they subjectively “don’t want it.” I’m not sure what that does for you besides morally exonerate the side you “support” by ignoring the unpleasant, actual facts and replacing it with moralistic PR about “good guys and bad guys.” They are literally, physically supporting the war regardless of how you or anyone else wants to spin it.
I think you are wrong. Let's
Anarchist (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 15:57
In reply to So objectively , materially by anon (not verified)
I think you are wrong. Let's agree to disagree.
No because you are literally,
anon (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 21:07
In reply to I think you are wrong. Let's by Anarchist (not verified)
No because you are literally, obviously, absurdly wrong. Maybe you’re just desperate to morally justify the side you sympathize with, to the point of bending over backwards and twisting the facts. You should think about that and try to treat this horrible situation with honesty.
I don't think so. Do you
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 05:41
In reply to No because you are literally, by anon (not verified)
I don't think so. Do you understand you can see a situation in different ways? Of course I am against Russian imperialism, this is an anarchist site.
Yeah, you’re splitting some
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 09:20
In reply to I don't think so. Do you by anon (not verified)
Yeah, you’re splitting some kind of hair that even though self-proclaimed anarchists both in and beyond Ukraine are supporting the war in very literal, direct, materially real ways, you want to put an asterisk that they don’t “really” support it because you think they are not to blame for it. It’s not looking at something two ways, it’s saying two completely different things. One of which seems just there for the moral justification of the side you sympathize with even though it really makes no sense to say. Got it yet?
No, I don't get it. If you
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 13:30
In reply to Yeah, you’re splitting some by anon (not verified)
No, I don't get it. If you don't support Ukraine I can't see how you're an anarchist.
Another frustrated poster
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 13:38
In reply to No, I don't get it. If you by anon (not verified)
Another frustrated poster here. Umm, maybe your definition of "anarchist 101" is aury, maybe read some more about it mmk?
awrynice word
anonymous (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 14:59
In reply to Another frustrated poster by anon (not verified)
awry
nice word
AHAHAHAHA get the fuck outta
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 20:04
In reply to No, I don't get it. If you by anon (not verified)
AHAHAHAHA get the fuck outta here! "Support Ukraine"! Sir, this is an anarchist website.
Troll. Go to sleep.
anon (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 04:46
In reply to AHAHAHAHA get the fuck outta by anon (not verified)
Troll. Go to sleep.
Dontcha know that supporting
Tim Tue, 06/13/2023 - 19:35
In reply to So objectively , materially by anon (not verified)
Dontcha know that supporting one specific state in a war between two states is anti-war. Duhhh
Yes, especially if you have a
anon (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 21:03
In reply to Dontcha know that supporting by Tim
Yes, especially if you have a general philosophical aversion to war while you actively wage war. That’s not hypocrisy, for some reason - it’s actually good and more important than what you’re literally, physically doing!
Supporting Ukraine today is like supporting Iraq in 2006
Luke from DC (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 03:02
In reply to Dontcha know that supporting by Tim
I support Ukraine today for the same reason I supported Iraq against George W Bush: imperialist powers that storm into areas they did not previously control need to have their heads handed to them. I will go even farther: just as I supported (and still support) regime change in the US, I also believe regime change is needed in Moscow. Millions of Russians agree, that's why there is an insurgency inside Russia (as exemplified by BOAC and Stop the Wagons) that even the FSB's worst torturers cannot stop.It's also why hundreds of thousands have fled as Americans did during Vietnam, in both cases to escape conscription.
If Ukrainian and Russian anarchists are in agreement that Putin is their worst immediate enemy, that tells me a hell of a lot.
Also Putin is a capitol-F Fascist, as an anti-Fascist I must oppose him same as Bush, Trump, and DeathSantis.
Supporting Ukraine today is
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 03:33
In reply to Supporting Ukraine today is like supporting Iraq in 2006 by Luke from DC (not verified)
Supporting Ukraine today is like supporting Japan in 1942. Like most wars its about trade, resources, political corporate greed, flexing nationalist identity pride.
-Former suicidal Japanese kamikaze pilot.
Thank you for your service.
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 08:06
In reply to Supporting Ukraine today is by anon (not verified)
Thank you for your service.
-Nankin Daigyakusatsu 16th Division Lieutenant
Bla bla bla I support US
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 08:51
In reply to Supporting Ukraine today is like supporting Iraq in 2006 by Luke from DC (not verified)
Bla bla bla I support US imperialism in 2023 because I opposed it 20 years ago. It’s not the argument you think it is.
A French "anarchist" in
anon (not verified) Mon, 06/12/2023 - 21:58
In reply to Weird phrasing, "in support by anon (not verified)
A French "anarchist" in support of the war against German imperialism back in the 1910s is still in support of the war... which means military action against an invading army. Was is not just aggressive. Retaliation IS war...
so these leftists are against
lizard3 (not verified) Mon, 06/12/2023 - 07:04
so these leftists are against war, armies and states only under certain conditions... bravo!!
It’s not just “weird phrasing
anon (not verified) Mon, 06/12/2023 - 07:34
It’s not just “weird phrasing”, the so-called anarchists in Ukraine (at least the ones who get interviewed and speak the loudest) ARE supporting the war along with the nationalists, liberals and actual Nazis. Under the command of their State. So yeah, the point is, whatever they were, whatever they think they are now, they ARE NOT ANARCHISTS.
But but...
anon (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 00:34
In reply to It’s not just “weird phrasing by anon (not verified)
They're anarchists coz this article sed so.
Anarchism doesn't mean
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 05:37
In reply to It’s not just “weird phrasing by anon (not verified)
Anarchism doesn't mean pacifism or giving up. Anarchism means fighting against oppression and therefore fighting Russia.
Being forced by a state to
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 07:48
In reply to Anarchism doesn't mean by anon (not verified)
Being forced by a state to remain in a country and get drafted is not oppressive. Totally not! Only Russia can be oppressive.
Yes, Russia is a uniquely
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 08:59
In reply to Being forced by a state to by anon (not verified)
Yes, Russia is a uniquely evil and powerful country that stole the 2016 elections, and now threatens to take over noble Evropa with its orkish eastern hordes, despite being far poorer and with a much smaller military than the US and its allies.
Next up, prepare for a barrage of stories about the evil Serbs as we head into another war in northern Kosovo. Sure the NATO-backed government has ethnically cleansed them out of everywhere except for like two counties on the border. But guess what, those areas contain the most valuable mines in Kosovo- the Kosovan Donbas as it were. I can’t wait to see what the discourse is about “democracy and imperialism” when that ramps up.
I promise you don’t have to be a tankie to analyze real world economics, politics and propaganda without reducing it to an idealistic game of “root for the good guys”
Nobody said that. You're
anon (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 04:47
In reply to Being forced by a state to by anon (not verified)
Nobody said that. You're mixing apples and oranges, and you dropped the ball.
Anarchism doesn't mean
Anarchist (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 08:13
In reply to Anarchism doesn't mean by anon (not verified)
Anarchism doesn't mean supporting any state or authority. Anarchism means fighting against all states and all authorities and therefore fighting Russia AND Ukraine.
What do you think the
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 05:38
In reply to It’s not just “weird phrasing by anon (not verified)
What do you think the Ukrainian anarchists should do?
Abandon militarism and ethno
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 07:20
In reply to What do you think the by anon (not verified)
Abandon militarism and ethno-nationalist bullshit, focus on building anarchy.
So in this case let Russia
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 08:13
In reply to Abandon militarism and ethno by anon (not verified)
So in this case let Russia take over Ukraine? Doesn't sound like a good idea.
How should they "build anarchy" in this ongoing war?
So in this case let Russia
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 19:12
In reply to So in this case let Russia by anon (not verified)
So in this case let Russia take over Ukraine? "
How is this affecting you? These are geopol issues that are effecting some military contractor's profits, or whoever rich people seeking to take over Ukraine's fertile lands, its females and its remaining industry. Do you own land over there?
Plus it's not like fighting for Ukraine is to be supporting a social revolutionary project like in Rojava, even with all its shortcomings and problems.
It's because of solidarity.
anon (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 04:44
In reply to So in this case let Russia by anon (not verified)
It's because of solidarity. Mabye you've heard of it? Also, if Russian wins the war they will start more wars.
Ukrainian anarchists are not
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 09:15
In reply to What do you think the by anon (not verified)
Ukrainian anarchists are not coming here for advice afaik, so why are you soliciting it on their behalf? It’s not my job to answer that really, but speaking to the “western” anarchists who *are* here, I just don’t think anyone should support our own imperialist governments’ participation. It’s troubling how many people seem to not get that but are only too happy to cheer on the geopolitical strategists and the arms industry.
And there are very often no good or at least no ideal radical options in the jaws of a horrific situation like war anyway. Another thing a lot of comfortable westerners don’t get. I hope we all don’t have to face this type of scenario. It’s best not to romanticize it in any case.
Hey, if you can’t trust US
anon (not verified) Mon, 06/12/2023 - 12:23
Hey, if you can’t trust US state-funded media to tell you the truth about the US’s foreign military affairs, who can you trust, amirite?
Sounds like a bunch of
Tim Tue, 06/13/2023 - 19:30
Sounds like a bunch of nationalists advertising their bar, Makhno Pub, and making vague references to Makhno. I wonder what anarchism means to these jarheads?
It means... *inaudible non-English rambling*
anon (not verified) Tue, 06/13/2023 - 22:26
In reply to Sounds like a bunch of by Tim
Ukrayyyne, Democracy, frying them Ruskies, shit.
If u don't cum to Democracy, Democracy's gonna come on to uuu!
Frustrating that admins
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 05:43
Frustrating that admins remove anti-Russian comments while allowing comments from a Kreml-perspective. Once again makes me lost trust in this site.
sounds like the site doesn't
anonymous (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 08:26
In reply to Frustrating that admins by anon (not verified)
sounds like the site doesn't trust you either. this is an ANARCHIST site. it is anti kremlin just like it's anti ukraine.
#lostcommenters
You're echoing Russian
anon (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 04:45
In reply to sounds like the site doesn't by anonymous (not verified)
You're echoing Russian propaganda. *yawn*
the most effective propaganda
anonymous (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 07:42
In reply to You're echoing Russian by anon (not verified)
the most effective propaganda includes true things, like all the best lies. so saying that someone is "echoing" is not informative or useful, certainly not without more detail about what is the false part...
a lot of work for a thread of anons, of course. but here we are.
Even MORE effective
anon (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 08:09
In reply to You're echoing Russian by anon (not verified)
Even MORE effective propaganda is Westerners being able to say --- We even have our enemies, anarchists, fighting on OUR side against the Russians.
Fuck Ukraine. Yes, the
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 10:26
Fuck Ukraine. Yes, the anarchists too.
Fuck Russia.
But first and foremost,
Fuck America and NATO.
You do what you got to do to
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 10:32
You do what you got to do to survive. That’s not really complicated, and is this case in any war. However you perceive it. Whichever side you’re on or not.
Picking up arms under the banner and command of a State dominated by fascists and Nazis (Ukraine) for ANY reason, is the moment you are no longer an anarchist.
It’s that simple.
Anarchism isn’t a fucking religion to bend to your own liking and convenience.
Fuck US/NATO
Fuck Russia/Ukraine
Since when are groups like BOAC under such flags?
Luke from DC (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 11:06
In reply to You do what you got to do to by anon (not verified)
Not everyone fighting in Ukraine or Russia against Putin is in anyone else's formal armed services. Some pick up arms under their own banners, especially if fighting inside Russia.
Where you fight, as I have said before, is determined by where you live. Being in Florida right now I fight DeSantis(Tallahassee) and Trump(Miami). Russia or Ukraine you have Putin to deal with
Where you fight is where your
Al Wayne Habib… (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 12:17
In reply to Since when are groups like BOAC under such flags? by Luke from DC (not verified)
Where you fight is where your displaced masculo-aggressive desire for violent orgasmic bloodlust takes you, whether it be a bar-room brawl, throwing rocks at a rival gang (riot cops) or pushing the button sending a cruise missile into a building.
Luke appears to be fixated on
anon (not verified) Thu, 06/15/2023 - 09:03
In reply to Since when are groups like BOAC under such flags? by Luke from DC (not verified)
Luke appears to be fixated on ultraconservatives. Want better champions of US imperialism? Look at Democrats. The war in Ukraine falls into line with Zbignew's "Grand Chessboard", that was published as far back as the late '90s, conveniently around the time Ukraine officially gained its inpedendence. The goal as define in there was to graduakly balkanize Russia starting with boosting nationalism in its direct neighboring countries, then whenever possible destabilize western Russia oblast by oblast, so to split it apart. Ukraine here was identified as the key country to start with.
Anarchists totally are a thing in Russia and Belarus, but just like in East Germany you totally could be having the typical CIA black ops instrumentalizing so-called anarchist insurgents to do the ground work for further, more advanced destabilization. The complication is that Putin's regime appears to have bought the Russian neonazis and other Far Right loonies, so foreign intel agencies might be left with only "anarchists" if not fascists from Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine.
So I'm not equating Russian anarchist insurgents to CIA black ops... but it seems pretty hard, especially in the context of Western mainstream media celebrating their sabotage actions, to be telling who's who.
Russia is a shit regime that only deserves being taken down, of course. But as with any insurrection in history,.the corner questions remain the same... by WHO, for WHOM's interests and to replace the regime with what? It's all about the other ends not the means.
"Anarchism isn’t a fucking religion to bend to your own liking"
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 10:54
It would appear from your comments that "Anarchism is a rigid ideology that you can't bend to your own liking and convenience."
Things are "that simple" only to a simpleton.
Having faith is for
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 18:16
Having faith is for simpletons.
"The lesson for him, like
anon (not verified) Wed, 06/14/2023 - 22:07
"The lesson for him, like other anarchists in Ukraine, is that the reality of war means political compromise."
Oh such brilliance! and how did it ended up with Makhno's agreement with the Bolchevik state?
Aaaaah yes, dumbasses.
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