4 calls! ! ! !

From https://johnzerzan.net/radio/

No show August 9 (JZ in Victoria BC). The now-usual extreme heat, fires, flooding. Pelican extinction. A crime to be poor e.g. LA's war on the homeless. What's new at Meta, in the cloud, apps, algorithms. Dangerous if ubiquitous robots. Amazon and solar big enviro problems. Anarchist events, disconnect attitudes, post-civ vs. anti-civ, action briefs, 4 calls.

Comments

anon (not verified) Wed, 08/03/2022 - 17:02

yeah, jz mentions ziq’s article around 27:10 timestamp. anyways, margaret killjoy has changed her views since that old essay. i guess in this point in time, all 3 of them would agree more than disagree. some people learn as they age and become more nuanced, which is more than we could say about jz. points for consistency, i guess. we’ll have to see about ziq

anon (not verified) Wed, 08/03/2022 - 18:41

Great episode! I especially enjoyed the calls this week. John is a treasure. Thanks for another consistently good Anarchy Radio! Fuck Yeah!

FERAL (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 08:27

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Why would we want to read a "conversation" where you self-aggrandize with one of your many sock puppet accounts for pages and pages?

"I mean zerzan is the last surviving member of the anprim moment and hasn't had a new idea for ages" -ziq

If you think the thesis of primitivism needs to change with the times you are entirely missing the point and also simply do not understand what a sound argument (against civilization, domestication, technology) is.

Go chop some wood.

FERALSTAN (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 09:35

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Context is fun. The entire quote is:

"I mean zerzan is the last surviving member of the anprim moment and hasn't had a new idea for ages. Perlman and Moore died decades ago. Anarchy has moved on. 2020s anti-civ is a lot more nuanced than 1980s anarcho-primitivism. Doesn't make sense to keep the current green anarchy sphere beholden to the dead and dying." -ziq

Just whom do you think you're correcting now by pointing out your perceived "fallacy"?

Fallacies are civ-think. Don't be a civcuck.

anon (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 09:59

In reply to by FERAL (not verified)

"Why would we want to read "

You just read the whole thing, you tell me?

It's great how much pretentious venom you just unleashed over nothing.

A good original idea: Zerzan's critique of language. Perlman's critique of domestication. Anonymous's critique of collapse. Being anti-civ doesn't mean you stop expressing ideas.

FERALX (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 10:28

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Which sock are you?

"Pretentious venom" like writing a long-assed essay against one anarchist's ideas by poorly critiquing and referencing another anarchist's ideas?

Do you really think sound thesis like John Zerzan's critique of civilization, domestication, symbolic thought, etc need be reimagined for new dumber audiences or do you think new dumber audiences might need to exercise their intelligence a little before writing "critiques" for the world to see and... critique?

A scenario:

Thinker: The evidence shows that certain materials should probably not be put into landfills where they can leech toxic substances into the water table.

Complainer: You've been saying that for decades don't you have any new ideas?!?

Everybody dies.
Fade out.

anon (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 10:40

In reply to by FERALX (not verified)

"Do you really think sound thesis like John Zerzan's critique of civilization, domestication, symbolic thought, etc need be reimagined for new dumber audiences"

Nope. Those are all words coming from your fingers.

lumpy (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 11:25

In reply to by anon (not verified)

I'm that guy, butting in

i can't help but notice a big problem with that example of leeching chemicals in landfills?

it locates the relevance in pointing out that ecological damage is bad, cuz the zerz is an academic, that's what academics do. they sit around and say bad things are bad.. i think MANY recent strains of anarchist thought suffer from this problem, not just the primmies although theirs is an especially difficult position to fight from.

but a long time ago, more classical anarchists understood that being correct meant little without the capacity for direct conflict.
it's a lot like "the final argument of kings"? but for anarchists ... or all political conflict in general. might doesn't make right but being right without any might doesn't mean shit either.

new anarchist ideas probably need to expand far beyond saying "bad thing is bad" over and over.

FER{ALF} (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 13:08

In reply to by lumpy (not verified)

"new anarchist ideas probably need to expand far beyond saying "bad thing is bad" over and over."

Lumpy, this is not all that John has been doing for decades. Of course he points out and reiterates his sound ideas. He has continually used his platform to champion those things that would certainly qualify as "expanding far beyond" saying things. Not only is John bringing intelligent, anarchist though into the world his is discussing (open for discussion) it weekly and highlighting actions and activities that have grown from a lot of his (and others') thought. He has been and is dong everything he is physically, creatively, and intellectually capable of to bring anarchist ideas to fruition. So much more than loudmouths simply writing (more-so podcasting) critiques to their cringe bubbles. Don't let the do-nothing haters color your opinion on a living thinker that has been saying and doing, and championing doers, for a long ass time.

lumpy (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 13:51

In reply to by FER{ALF} (not verified)

i don't think anyone is "colouring my opinions" ... i'm relatively sympathetic to john's ideas for the record. mostly agree!

this is just my position, a relatively high bar for what counts as "saying and doing", just because well ... look around!

has he done more than most of the online peanut gallery? sure, definitely. but that's a very low bar.

FERALPOX (not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 14:14

In reply to by lumpy (not verified)

More people are aware of civilization's culture of suicide because of John's work than were before him. It would be safe to say that likely all contemporary anarchist or anarchist-adjacent anti-civ/alternative living situations across Turtle Island have been impacted by John's scholarship either directly or indirectly. John's contribution has affected the thinking of countless anarchists. This is not even in question.

anon (not verified) Fri, 08/05/2022 - 07:32

In reply to by lumpy (not verified)

Different anon here. Do you think the actions of day,,, Uncle Ted, the ELF, and even ITS to some degree are just people sati g @bad things bad!”? What about the WTO riots? What about the ATL forest occupation? Does it only become an acceptable @doing” in your mind with its a black bloc in the street because he’s influenced those too.

anon (not verified) Fri, 08/05/2022 - 08:01

In reply to by lumpy (not verified)

Anon, lumpy only considers it "doing" if orders come from a Maoist militant structure. He's also just a troll at heart that won't ever actually answer and who will always find a way to move the goal posts. See the above "what have you done for me lately?" exchange for example. Engagement is not encouraged.
-The Management

lumpy (not verified) Fri, 08/05/2022 - 08:10

In reply to by anon (not verified)

ha! i dont need to move goalposts when ppl don't even know where the field is.

plus there's the obvious problems with any questions that sound like -

which kind of very illegal actions would you endorse and/or do??

Dr.Benway (not verified) Fri, 08/05/2022 - 09:24

In reply to by anon (not verified)

was happy about people who wanted others to do stuff for them but not the other way around...

I wonder if he ever popped his lumps, i've found my foot blisters heal faster when i pop them, but they don't need to be healed to begin with so now i know the message of the lord! NO NEED FOR GOALPOSTS WHEN THINGS ARE SIMPLE.

(not verified) Thu, 08/04/2022 - 16:10

In reply to by lumpy (not verified)

Turning your back on vegans and refusing to hunt with a bow and arrow, prefering a scoped semi-automatic is tolerable for the 21st century primitivist. There has to be some compromise because JZ's doctrine is a harsh and cold sentence to impose upon those who ARE NOT the perpetrators of these environmental variations. T
Get over catastrophic climate, that's nature giving it back in a self-regulating cycle that nothing humans can do now will have any influence on a process that is accelerating towards uncomfortable, erosive and infrastructure damaging conditions which are nothing out of the ordinary if one looks at the big cosmic events of the past. Relax and have fun in the extreme weather.
Extinct animals? Calm down, everything becomes extinct eventually, enjoy the journey.

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